5 ms·

> I work at a FAANG and a massive percentage of employees are rabidly anti-racist, and wouldn't stand for anything like that. I get nervous when I make a comme

> I work at a FAANG and a massive percentage of employees are rabidly anti-racist, and wouldn't stand for anything like that. I get nervous when I make a comment about Zoom being insecure because it's Chinese around Chinese coworkers, and I can at least point to its bad track record on security and how Five Eyes members are treating Huawei.

oh_sigh 6y ago
I'm not sure I fully understand your point, but it might be worth adjusting your language a little bit to account for a quirk of our language(in that Chinese could refer to the nationality, or the government): I assume your problem with Zoom is its association with the CCP, and not just that it is merely Chinese.
- xenihn 6y ago
  Conspiracy theory time: That's not a quirk with our language, there's a deliberate lack of distinction between the country and the people. During the Cold War, you could say "Soviet" instead of "Russian" to clearly demarcate between the nation and the nationality. We don't have a modern equivalent for the PRC, and that's because someone wants it that way. It'd be trivial for a new term to be pushed through media, but it's not being done, even though we clearly need one.
  - evan_ 6y ago
    > you could say "Soviet" instead of "Russian" to clearly demarcate between the nation and the nationality. The demonym for the people who lived in the Soviet Union was “Soviet.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union
    - xenihn 6y ago
      Sure, but if you had neighbors who immigrated to the US from Moscow in the late 80s, would you refer to them as "Soviet" or "Russian"?
      - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
        Jews, who formed such a large part of the emigration from the Soviet Union in the 1970s and 1980s to the USA, often bristle at being called "Russian". Yes, their language is now Russian after Eastern Europe's Jews have shifted away from Yiddish, but they still don't consider themselves Russians. For example, my own mother-in-law is a member of this emigre demographic and insists on being referred to as "a Jew from the Soviet Union".
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > During the Cold War, you could say "Soviet" instead of "Russian" to clearly demarcate between the nation and the nationality That's not what that distinguished. It distinguished whether you were talking about things pertaining to the USSR and those specifically having to do with Russia; the same rough difference as between “American” and “Californian” (or, perhaps a better analogy would be “British” and “English”.) > We don't have a modern equivalent for the PRC Mostly because China didn't conquer a bunch of neighbors and create a name for the resulting state distinct from “China”, which remains as the name for the absolutely dominant component. But, again, while the Soviet/Russian distinction did exist, it did not serve the purpose you describe, and we didn't have any linguistic distinction that did.
    - ljlolel 6y ago
      You've got a bit to learn about Tibet, HK, Xinjiang ( a muslim region), and soon Taiwan
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        > You've got a bit to learn about Tibet, HK, Xinjiang ( a muslim region), and soon Taiwan Or, you've got to read to the end of the sentence: > Mostly because China didn't conquer a bunch of neighbors and create a name for the resulting state distinct from “China” That last part matters.
        xenihn 6y ago
        You know China doesn't refer to themselves as China, right? China is Portugese in origin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_China
        wan23 6y ago
        China definitely refers to themselves as China when speaking English just like the United States refers to itself as 美利坚合众国 or just 美国 when speaking Chinese.
- worker767424 6y ago
  That's a good point: it's specifically CCP involvement, and language doesn't differentiate that well. It doesn't help that the CCP is the only game in town. It's hard not to be involved with the CCP in China.

oh_sigh 6y ago

I'm not sure I fully understand your point, but it might be worth adjusting your language a little bit to account for a quirk of our language(in that Chinese could refer to the nationality, or the government): I assume your problem with Zoom is its association with the CCP, and not just that it is merely Chinese.

xenihn 6y ago
Conspiracy theory time: That's not a quirk with our language, there's a deliberate lack of distinction between the country and the people. During the Cold War, you could say "Soviet" instead of "Russian" to clearly demarcate between the nation and the nationality. We don't have a modern equivalent for the PRC, and that's because someone wants it that way. It'd be trivial for a new term to be pushed through media, but it's not being done, even though we clearly need one.
- evan_ 6y ago
  > you could say "Soviet" instead of "Russian" to clearly demarcate between the nation and the nationality. The demonym for the people who lived in the Soviet Union was “Soviet.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union
  - xenihn 6y ago
    Sure, but if you had neighbors who immigrated to the US from Moscow in the late 80s, would you refer to them as "Soviet" or "Russian"?
    - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
      Jews, who formed such a large part of the emigration from the Soviet Union in the 1970s and 1980s to the USA, often bristle at being called "Russian". Yes, their language is now Russian after Eastern Europe's Jews have shifted away from Yiddish, but they still don't consider themselves Russians. For example, my own mother-in-law is a member of this emigre demographic and insists on being referred to as "a Jew from the Soviet Union".
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > During the Cold War, you could say "Soviet" instead of "Russian" to clearly demarcate between the nation and the nationality That's not what that distinguished. It distinguished whether you were talking about things pertaining to the USSR and those specifically having to do with Russia; the same rough difference as between “American” and “Californian” (or, perhaps a better analogy would be “British” and “English”.) > We don't have a modern equivalent for the PRC Mostly because China didn't conquer a bunch of neighbors and create a name for the resulting state distinct from “China”, which remains as the name for the absolutely dominant component. But, again, while the Soviet/Russian distinction did exist, it did not serve the purpose you describe, and we didn't have any linguistic distinction that did.
  - ljlolel 6y ago
    You've got a bit to learn about Tibet, HK, Xinjiang ( a muslim region), and soon Taiwan
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > You've got a bit to learn about Tibet, HK, Xinjiang ( a muslim region), and soon Taiwan Or, you've got to read to the end of the sentence: > Mostly because China didn't conquer a bunch of neighbors and create a name for the resulting state distinct from “China” That last part matters.
      - xenihn 6y ago
        You know China doesn't refer to themselves as China, right? China is Portugese in origin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_China
        wan23 6y ago
        China definitely refers to themselves as China when speaking English just like the United States refers to itself as 美利坚合众国 or just 美国 when speaking Chinese.
worker767424 6y ago
That's a good point: it's specifically CCP involvement, and language doesn't differentiate that well. It doesn't help that the CCP is the only game in town. It's hard not to be involved with the CCP in China.