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> How good are the certificates though in assessing actual skill vs test taking ability? That would depend on the cert and the level of experience of a given c

> How good are the certificates though in assessing actual skill vs test taking ability? That would depend on the cert and the level of experience of a given candidate. > As very anecdotally, I know one person with an Amazon cert and they are also someone who wants me to tell them which line numbers of their code to edit for assignments. And they got it by cramming for the exam like any other test. So my thoughts on Developer Associate are not very high. Obviously, that is more of a reflection on that person's personality and less on them having a cert. Not everyone with a cert is like that. > Other developers have told me that one of the easiest ways to get a cert is to just pay someone in India to take the test for you in case you need it for a contract (for those developers in the consulting world) That's a culture problem, not a cert problem. Some people get certs to honestly learn and signal that knowledge to others, not just to tick a check box or add a resume bullet point. Yeesh. SMH.

totony 6y ago
>That's a culture problem, not a cert problem. Some people get certs to honestly learn and signal that knowledge to others, not just to tick a check box or add a resume bullet point. But certs cannot be isolated from culture, which undermines their value.
Brian_K_White 6y ago
How do you read that anecdote and still try to defend the cert as useful? The whole point of any cert is to serve as a proxy for knowing that someone else knows something. You aren't a doctor, and have no way to judge anyone else's fitness to prescribe or perform treatments on you, but they have a diploma that you are assured by everyone you ever met that those are hard to get, especially if you look one level deeper and look at the school name rather than just the fact of a diploma at all. If you can be useless and still get the cert, then the cert is not only of no positive value, it is of actively negative value, at least in the macro scale for everyone as a whole. It can obviously be of positive value to an individual as a game move within a disfunctional game. But that just comes at the expense of everyone else, like capitolizing on some tax loophole or something instead of seeking to close it.
- game_the0ry 6y ago
  > How do you read that anecdote and still try to defend the cert as useful? A couple of reasons: 1. It's a weak anecdote 2. Anecdotes are not statistically proven facts 3. I have anecdotes from my life that demonstrates the exact opposite I do not know how you read an anecdote, on the internet of all places, and take it seriously.

totony 6y ago

>That's a culture problem, not a cert problem. Some people get certs to honestly learn and signal that knowledge to others, not just to tick a check box or add a resume bullet point. But certs cannot be isolated from culture, which undermines their value.

Brian_K_White 6y ago

How do you read that anecdote and still try to defend the cert as useful? The whole point of any cert is to serve as a proxy for knowing that someone else knows something. You aren't a doctor, and have no way to judge anyone else's fitness to prescribe or perform treatments on you, but they have a diploma that you are assured by everyone you ever met that those are hard to get, especially if you look one level deeper and look at the school name rather than just the fact of a diploma at all. If you can be useless and still get the cert, then the cert is not only of no positive value, it is of actively negative value, at least in the macro scale for everyone as a whole. It can obviously be of positive value to an individual as a game move within a disfunctional game. But that just comes at the expense of everyone else, like capitolizing on some tax loophole or something instead of seeking to close it.

game_the0ry 6y ago
> How do you read that anecdote and still try to defend the cert as useful? A couple of reasons: 1. It's a weak anecdote 2. Anecdotes are not statistically proven facts 3. I have anecdotes from my life that demonstrates the exact opposite I do not know how you read an anecdote, on the internet of all places, and take it seriously.