8 ms·

> The Iranian nuclear scientist in question was building a nuclear bomb to destroy Israel. You can't just say that without tons of credible evidence to back it

> The Iranian nuclear scientist in question was building a nuclear bomb to destroy Israel. You can't just say that without tons of credible evidence to back it up. Especially given Iran has no nuclear weapons while Israel does have them and refuses to sign any regulating treaty. > In the U.S. our nuclear arsenal is a defensive weapon. So, not morally equivalent. think you forgot the sarcasm tag. The U.S. is the ONLY country in history to have ever used nuclear weapons offensively. The Iranians have followed the nuclear deal, the U.S. has pulled out and violated the agreement. If anything, it is the U.S. that has shown itself as the irrational player here.

TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
> The Iranians have followed the nuclear deal What are you talking about? https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear/britain-france-germany-formally-accuse-iran-of-breaking-nuclear-deal-idUSKBN1ZD13A https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear/britain-fran... Additionally, Iran often has not allowed international inspectors access to its nuclear facilities. This is required to audit that Iran is actually following the terms of the deal. That’s why America pulled out of the deal.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  > What are you talking about? There is no deal if the signatories pull out. Prior to America pulling out, international inspectors were allowed access.
  - TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
    You have the timeline wrong. For example this is from August 2017: “ Iran says military sites are off-limits for nuclear inspections despite U.S. pressure” https://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-iran-nuclear-20170830-story.html https://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-iran-nuclear-201708... American withdrew from the deal in May 2018 because Iran would not allow independent auditors to inspect all known or suspected sites. See also this from 2015: “The Iranian Nuclear-Inspection Charade Iran is allowed ample time, up to 24 days, to hide or destroy evidence before inspectors are given access.” https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-iranian-nuclear-inspection-charade-1437001048 https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-iranian-nuclear-inspection-... There were other instances going back to 2005.
    - AsyncAwait 6y ago
      No country would ever allow inspection of absolutely ALL MILITARY SITES, this is madness and an unavailable request designed as a pretext. The UN atomic watchdog certified the Iranians were following the deal until sometime after the U.S. pulled out.
      - TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
        > No country would ever allow inspection of absolutely ALL MILITARY SITES, Nobody asked for that. They asked for inspection of sites that show radionuclides emissions or specific heat signatures indicative of enrichment. I believe these are detected from satellite and environmental sensors. See: https://news.mit.edu/2018/explained-detecting-threat-nuclear-weapons-scott-kemp-0608 https://news.mit.edu/2018/explained-detecting-threat-nuclear... Update: Yes, this can be detected from satellite imagery: http://www.princeton.edu/~aglaser/IT009-Glaser-2010-iGSE-New-York.pdf http://www.princeton.edu/~aglaser/IT009-Glaser-2010-iGSE-New... > The UN atomic watchdog certified the Iranians were following the deal until sometime after the U.S. pulled out. Source?
        AsyncAwait 6y ago
        > sites that show radionuclides emissions or specific heat signatures, etc. The U.S. has claimed that. The UN watchdog says they followed the deal. I trust them over the U.S. for sure. > American withdrew from the deal in May 2018 And yet, the Iranians STILL followed the deal for quite a bit longer. > Source? https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2019-04/news/iaea-says-iran-abiding-nuclear-deal https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2019-04/news/iaea-says-iran-...
        TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
        > The U.S. has claimed that. The UN watchdog says they followed the deal. I trust them over the U.S. for sure. Indeed, I would, too. But it’s not just the US. It’s Britain, France, and Germany: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear/britain-france-germany-formally-accuse-iran-of-breaking-nuclear-deal-idUSKBN1ZD13A https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear/britain-fran... Are you suggesting that all 4 countries are colluding together on this?
zaroth 6y ago
Israel spies stole the evidence from Iran and presented it to the world. In one of those presentations Netanyahu specifically called out Fakhrizadeh saying, “Remember that name.”
- AsyncAwait 6y ago
  Netanyahu has been fearmongering for 20+ years now and has no credibility left.
  - zaroth 6y ago
    Your ad hominem is irrelevant. The evidence of Iran’s nuclear weapons research is incontrovertible, and the point is that Israel believes it to be an existential threat if Iran obtains nukes. They believe that because Iran’s leaders specifically call for the destruction of Israel, just taking Iran at its word.
    - AsyncAwait 6y ago
      > The evidence of Iran’s nuclear weapons research is incontrovertible There's no evidence Iran has pursued anything since entering the agreement, the Israeli intel is rehashed old news[1]. > They believe that because Iran’s leaders specifically call for the destruction of Israel, just taking Iran at its word. Israeli leaders call out for the destruction of Palestine and its people, should we take them at their word?[2][3]. 1 - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/netanyahu-s-info-iran-nukes-known-u-s-intelligence-years-n870456 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/netanyahu-s-info-iran-n... 2 - https://www.dailysabah.com/mideast/2014/07/14/mothers-of-all-palestinians-should-also-be-killed-says-israeli-politician https://www.dailysabah.com/mideast/2014/07/14/mothers-of-all... 3 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_Israeli_annexation_of_the_West_Bank https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_Israeli_annexation_of...
      - zaroth 6y ago
        Hardly a leader of Israel, the leader of a political group with 7 seats out of 120 in their equivalent of the House of Representative. The Palestinians say the same thing about Israel, at least in Israel it is the minority viewpoint. In Iran it’s the Ayatollah saying it on the regular, and they’ve made it basically a national holiday. [1] [1] - https://apnews.com/article/a033042303545d9ef783a95222d51b83 https://apnews.com/article/a033042303545d9ef783a95222d51b83
joshuaheard 6y ago
"The U.S. is the ONLY country in history to have ever used nuclear weapons offensively." No, we used 2 nuclear weapons against Japan. Japan attacked the U.S. at Pearl Harbor. We were defending ourselves against their original attack.
- AsyncAwait 6y ago
  > Japan attacked the U.S. at Pearl Harbor. We were defending ourselves against their original attack. That happened in 41, the bombs were dropped in 45. Hardly any civilians died at Pearl Harbor, it was a military target. Hundreds of thousands civilians died after U.S. launched the bombs. This was not a proportional response to Pearl Harbor or any other attack by the Japanese. There was no need for nukes to "defend" yourselves. In fact the U.S. was one of the least impacted countries of WWII among the major powers. Statements at the time by U.S. officials indicate this was deliberate aggression to show the power of the bomb to the world as not to challenge U.S. dominance.
  - joshuaheard 6y ago
    You're moving the goal posts. Japan attacked the U.S. We were defending ourselves against Japan in WW2. We used the nukes to win that war. So, it was a defensive use of nukes. Japan proved it would not surrender, so the only option was to nuke them into submission. Otherwise, hundreds of thousands of American soldiers would have died.

TedDoesntTalk 6y ago

> The Iranians have followed the nuclear deal What are you talking about? https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear/britain-france-germany-formally-accuse-iran-of-breaking-nuclear-deal-idUSKBN1ZD13A https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear/britain-fran... Additionally, Iran often has not allowed international inspectors access to its nuclear facilities. This is required to audit that Iran is actually following the terms of the deal. That’s why America pulled out of the deal.

whimsicalism 6y ago
> What are you talking about? There is no deal if the signatories pull out. Prior to America pulling out, international inspectors were allowed access.
- TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
  You have the timeline wrong. For example this is from August 2017: “ Iran says military sites are off-limits for nuclear inspections despite U.S. pressure” https://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-iran-nuclear-20170830-story.html https://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-iran-nuclear-201708... American withdrew from the deal in May 2018 because Iran would not allow independent auditors to inspect all known or suspected sites. See also this from 2015: “The Iranian Nuclear-Inspection Charade Iran is allowed ample time, up to 24 days, to hide or destroy evidence before inspectors are given access.” https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-iranian-nuclear-inspection-charade-1437001048 https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-iranian-nuclear-inspection-... There were other instances going back to 2005.
  - AsyncAwait 6y ago
    No country would ever allow inspection of absolutely ALL MILITARY SITES, this is madness and an unavailable request designed as a pretext. The UN atomic watchdog certified the Iranians were following the deal until sometime after the U.S. pulled out.
    - TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
      > No country would ever allow inspection of absolutely ALL MILITARY SITES, Nobody asked for that. They asked for inspection of sites that show radionuclides emissions or specific heat signatures indicative of enrichment. I believe these are detected from satellite and environmental sensors. See: https://news.mit.edu/2018/explained-detecting-threat-nuclear-weapons-scott-kemp-0608 https://news.mit.edu/2018/explained-detecting-threat-nuclear... Update: Yes, this can be detected from satellite imagery: http://www.princeton.edu/~aglaser/IT009-Glaser-2010-iGSE-New-York.pdf http://www.princeton.edu/~aglaser/IT009-Glaser-2010-iGSE-New... > The UN atomic watchdog certified the Iranians were following the deal until sometime after the U.S. pulled out. Source?
      - AsyncAwait 6y ago
        > sites that show radionuclides emissions or specific heat signatures, etc. The U.S. has claimed that. The UN watchdog says they followed the deal. I trust them over the U.S. for sure. > American withdrew from the deal in May 2018 And yet, the Iranians STILL followed the deal for quite a bit longer. > Source? https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2019-04/news/iaea-says-iran-abiding-nuclear-deal https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2019-04/news/iaea-says-iran-...
        TedDoesntTalk 6y ago
        > The U.S. has claimed that. The UN watchdog says they followed the deal. I trust them over the U.S. for sure. Indeed, I would, too. But it’s not just the US. It’s Britain, France, and Germany: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear/britain-france-germany-formally-accuse-iran-of-breaking-nuclear-deal-idUSKBN1ZD13A https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear/britain-fran... Are you suggesting that all 4 countries are colluding together on this?

zaroth 6y ago

Israel spies stole the evidence from Iran and presented it to the world. In one of those presentations Netanyahu specifically called out Fakhrizadeh saying, “Remember that name.”

AsyncAwait 6y ago
Netanyahu has been fearmongering for 20+ years now and has no credibility left.
- zaroth 6y ago
  Your ad hominem is irrelevant. The evidence of Iran’s nuclear weapons research is incontrovertible, and the point is that Israel believes it to be an existential threat if Iran obtains nukes. They believe that because Iran’s leaders specifically call for the destruction of Israel, just taking Iran at its word.
  - AsyncAwait 6y ago
    > The evidence of Iran’s nuclear weapons research is incontrovertible There's no evidence Iran has pursued anything since entering the agreement, the Israeli intel is rehashed old news[1]. > They believe that because Iran’s leaders specifically call for the destruction of Israel, just taking Iran at its word. Israeli leaders call out for the destruction of Palestine and its people, should we take them at their word?[2][3]. 1 - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/netanyahu-s-info-iran-nukes-known-u-s-intelligence-years-n870456 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/netanyahu-s-info-iran-n... 2 - https://www.dailysabah.com/mideast/2014/07/14/mothers-of-all-palestinians-should-also-be-killed-says-israeli-politician https://www.dailysabah.com/mideast/2014/07/14/mothers-of-all... 3 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_Israeli_annexation_of_the_West_Bank https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_Israeli_annexation_of...
    - zaroth 6y ago
      Hardly a leader of Israel, the leader of a political group with 7 seats out of 120 in their equivalent of the House of Representative. The Palestinians say the same thing about Israel, at least in Israel it is the minority viewpoint. In Iran it’s the Ayatollah saying it on the regular, and they’ve made it basically a national holiday. [1] [1] - https://apnews.com/article/a033042303545d9ef783a95222d51b83 https://apnews.com/article/a033042303545d9ef783a95222d51b83

joshuaheard 6y ago

"The U.S. is the ONLY country in history to have ever used nuclear weapons offensively." No, we used 2 nuclear weapons against Japan. Japan attacked the U.S. at Pearl Harbor. We were defending ourselves against their original attack.

AsyncAwait 6y ago
> Japan attacked the U.S. at Pearl Harbor. We were defending ourselves against their original attack. That happened in 41, the bombs were dropped in 45. Hardly any civilians died at Pearl Harbor, it was a military target. Hundreds of thousands civilians died after U.S. launched the bombs. This was not a proportional response to Pearl Harbor or any other attack by the Japanese. There was no need for nukes to "defend" yourselves. In fact the U.S. was one of the least impacted countries of WWII among the major powers. Statements at the time by U.S. officials indicate this was deliberate aggression to show the power of the bomb to the world as not to challenge U.S. dominance.
- joshuaheard 6y ago
  You're moving the goal posts. Japan attacked the U.S. We were defending ourselves against Japan in WW2. We used the nukes to win that war. So, it was a defensive use of nukes. Japan proved it would not surrender, so the only option was to nuke them into submission. Otherwise, hundreds of thousands of American soldiers would have died.