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As an American immigrant to Switzerland, don’t move here to be on the cutting technical edge. You will be sorely disappointed. It’s a function of societal menta

As an American immigrant to Switzerland, don’t move here to be on the cutting technical edge. You will be sorely disappointed. It’s a function of societal mentality (slow to change as a way of ensuring enduring stability) and size (fewer people, fairly spread out, only two or three cities big enough to be tech hubs). I moved here for a lot of other reasons, and I’m very happy with my decision and its benefits, but a startup cutting edge country, it is not. If you want that, try Estonia!

LeanderK 6y ago
I've heard there's a lot of cutting technical edge in zurich due to the ETH, would you disagree?
- Rochus 6y ago
  Sure, ETH is at the top on university world ranking and there is a long history of innovations and nobel price laureats.
  - LeanderK 6y ago
    yeah, but I was wondering whether they managed to built a high-tech ecosystem around the ETH. I know that at least google has offices there, but I don't know what it's like in zurich and how much cutting edge high-tech is actually done at these offices.
    - Rochus 6y ago
      See e.g. https://ethz.ch/en/industry/entrepreneurs/spinoff.html https://ethz.ch/en/industry/entrepreneurs/spinoff.html, https://ethz.ch/en/industry/entrepreneurs/spinoff/uebersicht-eth-spin-offs.html https://ethz.ch/en/industry/entrepreneurs/spinoff/uebersicht..., or https://www.technopark.ch/ https://www.technopark.ch/ Why do you think Google and other big companies have large development departments in Switzerland? There are a lot of very well educated and hardworking people, and job satisfaction is high.
      - LeanderK 6y ago
        yeah, I know. And the ETH graduates are probably top-quality. But the parent poster said that he didn't experience cutting edge technology in switzerland and I wondered whether it's the same in Zurich. In germany, I've experience that you can excel at one technical property (usually your core product, manufacturing something, designing some material) while also being very conservative in virtually every other dimension. It's different in startups, but I wonder about zurich in general. So I think that both is possible, moving very slow and being very conservative, while on the other hand excelling at one particular thing (where you would need the high-quality ETH graduates). It's usually that IT is not the main focus here (in germany), so you can end up in slowly moving, very conservative, magnitudes behind cutting edge organisation. The swiss are not really known for a silicon-valley kind of attitude. I think it's a mindset and a lot of companies only see IT as cost instead of investment, much less as a driver of innovation. That's why I'm asking.
        Rochus 6y ago
        > he didn't experience cutting edge technology in switzerland What ever that is supposed to mean; maybe after looking a couple of days with a very narrow focus. > The swiss are not really known for a silicon-valley kind of attitude Well, there is no "hire and fire", and there are no garages and cellars that are worth a billion dollars overnight. But there were and still are a lot of innovations in various fields. Also Germany has great engineers and a lot of innovation, but the state weighs much heavier on the companies than in Switzerland. EDIT: Perhaps the Global Inovation Index would also be worth a look: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Innovation_Index https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Innovation_Index
        Rochus 6y ago
        For the sceptics: do you really think, companies like Roche, Novartis, ABB, Schindler, Logitech, Sonova, Ypsomed, and others don't use or develop cutting edge technology? As you can see Switzerland is on the top of the Global Inovation Index (and no, this index is not issued by Swiss organizations).
- lukeqsee 6y ago
  Good point. I should have qualified. ETH is an excellent school—I'd be happy to have an ETH degree! They produce tons of good research in computer science (especially geospatial), material science, and others. I think Google is especially there because of the geospatial workforce (and generally highly qualified technologists). By "cutting technical edge", I specifically meant 1) large numbers of smart people solving important problems in startups and 2) large numbers of smart people pushing practical technology forward in novel ways. In general, most dev jobs in CH are C++ or Java. I know of a handful of good startups, but not too many. The mentality is generally quite conservative, so most companies do standard technology solutions for standard companies—nothing wrong with that, but I wouldn't say you can compare Zürich to Berlin, Barcelona, London, Tallinn, or any of the US startup hubs (and it's not just attributable to population size).
  - Rochus 6y ago
    "In God we trust, all others must bring data." (Edward Deming) See https://www.wipo.int/edocs/pubdocs/en/wipo_pub_gii_2019.pdf https://www.wipo.int/edocs/pubdocs/en/wipo_pub_gii_2019.pdf, https://ethz.ch/en/industry/entrepreneurs/spinoff/uebersicht-eth-spin-offs.html https://ethz.ch/en/industry/entrepreneurs/spinoff/uebersicht..., etc.
    - lukeqsee 6y ago
      That’s a good quote, I shall use it in the future. :) I never disputed that there’s lots of spin-offs from ETH, but I was unaware of the precise count. It’s higher than I thought. Thanks for bringing the data. However, even with a few dozen startups a year it cannot be termed to a major startup hub. Are there any accelerators, major VCs, or the like in Zürich? I’m not aware of many, if any. I’m in Ostschweiz, so I don’t know Zürich super well, but here the tech meetups groups for almost everything are < 100 members (not attendees), so I would have to go to Zürich for any real meetups, which are quite small based on group pages, as well. And don’t get me wrong—I’m not disappointed in or minimizing the amount cool stuff that comes out of Switzerland. I want to see it grow and succeed. It’d be fantastic if Zürich became a major hub in the future. Hopp Schwiiz! :)
mahkeiro 6y ago
Switzerland being ranked every year in the top 3 most innovative country in the world, you will find a bit of cutting edge techno developed there, however maybe not in your field of expertise. For instance the number of biotech startup is huge with multiple incubator in Switzerland. A few of many links: * https://bioalps.org/innovation-enablers/ https://bioalps.org/innovation-enablers/ * https://baselaunch.ch/ https://baselaunch.ch/
- lukeqsee 6y ago
  Yes, thanks to the sibling comment, I'm more aware than I was when I made my initial comment. The startup bent seems to be toward cutting edge in hard sciences (bio, materials, etc.), and as a result, most of the startups are outside my typical sphere and interests, so I didn't know where to look for them! I stand by my original comment that I didn't move here for the startups, and if I were looking for a place to move for a startup ecosystem, I'd probably still look elsewhere, but there is significantly more technical development that's being commercialized than I realized.

LeanderK 6y ago

I've heard there's a lot of cutting technical edge in zurich due to the ETH, would you disagree?

Rochus 6y ago
Sure, ETH is at the top on university world ranking and there is a long history of innovations and nobel price laureats.
- LeanderK 6y ago
  yeah, but I was wondering whether they managed to built a high-tech ecosystem around the ETH. I know that at least google has offices there, but I don't know what it's like in zurich and how much cutting edge high-tech is actually done at these offices.
  - Rochus 6y ago
    See e.g. https://ethz.ch/en/industry/entrepreneurs/spinoff.html https://ethz.ch/en/industry/entrepreneurs/spinoff.html, https://ethz.ch/en/industry/entrepreneurs/spinoff/uebersicht-eth-spin-offs.html https://ethz.ch/en/industry/entrepreneurs/spinoff/uebersicht..., or https://www.technopark.ch/ https://www.technopark.ch/ Why do you think Google and other big companies have large development departments in Switzerland? There are a lot of very well educated and hardworking people, and job satisfaction is high.
    - LeanderK 6y ago
      yeah, I know. And the ETH graduates are probably top-quality. But the parent poster said that he didn't experience cutting edge technology in switzerland and I wondered whether it's the same in Zurich. In germany, I've experience that you can excel at one technical property (usually your core product, manufacturing something, designing some material) while also being very conservative in virtually every other dimension. It's different in startups, but I wonder about zurich in general. So I think that both is possible, moving very slow and being very conservative, while on the other hand excelling at one particular thing (where you would need the high-quality ETH graduates). It's usually that IT is not the main focus here (in germany), so you can end up in slowly moving, very conservative, magnitudes behind cutting edge organisation. The swiss are not really known for a silicon-valley kind of attitude. I think it's a mindset and a lot of companies only see IT as cost instead of investment, much less as a driver of innovation. That's why I'm asking.
      - Rochus 6y ago
        > he didn't experience cutting edge technology in switzerland What ever that is supposed to mean; maybe after looking a couple of days with a very narrow focus. > The swiss are not really known for a silicon-valley kind of attitude Well, there is no "hire and fire", and there are no garages and cellars that are worth a billion dollars overnight. But there were and still are a lot of innovations in various fields. Also Germany has great engineers and a lot of innovation, but the state weighs much heavier on the companies than in Switzerland. EDIT: Perhaps the Global Inovation Index would also be worth a look: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Innovation_Index https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Innovation_Index
        Rochus 6y ago
        For the sceptics: do you really think, companies like Roche, Novartis, ABB, Schindler, Logitech, Sonova, Ypsomed, and others don't use or develop cutting edge technology? As you can see Switzerland is on the top of the Global Inovation Index (and no, this index is not issued by Swiss organizations).
lukeqsee 6y ago
Good point. I should have qualified. ETH is an excellent school—I'd be happy to have an ETH degree! They produce tons of good research in computer science (especially geospatial), material science, and others. I think Google is especially there because of the geospatial workforce (and generally highly qualified technologists). By "cutting technical edge", I specifically meant 1) large numbers of smart people solving important problems in startups and 2) large numbers of smart people pushing practical technology forward in novel ways. In general, most dev jobs in CH are C++ or Java. I know of a handful of good startups, but not too many. The mentality is generally quite conservative, so most companies do standard technology solutions for standard companies—nothing wrong with that, but I wouldn't say you can compare Zürich to Berlin, Barcelona, London, Tallinn, or any of the US startup hubs (and it's not just attributable to population size).
- Rochus 6y ago
  "In God we trust, all others must bring data." (Edward Deming) See https://www.wipo.int/edocs/pubdocs/en/wipo_pub_gii_2019.pdf https://www.wipo.int/edocs/pubdocs/en/wipo_pub_gii_2019.pdf, https://ethz.ch/en/industry/entrepreneurs/spinoff/uebersicht-eth-spin-offs.html https://ethz.ch/en/industry/entrepreneurs/spinoff/uebersicht..., etc.
  - lukeqsee 6y ago
    That’s a good quote, I shall use it in the future. :) I never disputed that there’s lots of spin-offs from ETH, but I was unaware of the precise count. It’s higher than I thought. Thanks for bringing the data. However, even with a few dozen startups a year it cannot be termed to a major startup hub. Are there any accelerators, major VCs, or the like in Zürich? I’m not aware of many, if any. I’m in Ostschweiz, so I don’t know Zürich super well, but here the tech meetups groups for almost everything are < 100 members (not attendees), so I would have to go to Zürich for any real meetups, which are quite small based on group pages, as well. And don’t get me wrong—I’m not disappointed in or minimizing the amount cool stuff that comes out of Switzerland. I want to see it grow and succeed. It’d be fantastic if Zürich became a major hub in the future. Hopp Schwiiz! :)

mahkeiro 6y ago

Switzerland being ranked every year in the top 3 most innovative country in the world, you will find a bit of cutting edge techno developed there, however maybe not in your field of expertise. For instance the number of biotech startup is huge with multiple incubator in Switzerland. A few of many links: * https://bioalps.org/innovation-enablers/ https://bioalps.org/innovation-enablers/ * https://baselaunch.ch/ https://baselaunch.ch/

lukeqsee 6y ago
Yes, thanks to the sibling comment, I'm more aware than I was when I made my initial comment. The startup bent seems to be toward cutting edge in hard sciences (bio, materials, etc.), and as a result, most of the startups are outside my typical sphere and interests, so I didn't know where to look for them! I stand by my original comment that I didn't move here for the startups, and if I were looking for a place to move for a startup ecosystem, I'd probably still look elsewhere, but there is significantly more technical development that's being commercialized than I realized.