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I tend to agree. Apparently it's very hard to get funding for novel ideas in Switzerland. And yes, risk aversion is a big part of Swiss culture, an example of w

I tend to agree. Apparently it's very hard to get funding for novel ideas in Switzerland. And yes, risk aversion is a big part of Swiss culture, an example of which being that Swiss are some of the most over-insured people, and savings rates also regularly top the charts. A fairly egalitarian society with a high standard of living makes for a people that doesn't like or "have to" take risks

8ytecoder 6y ago
If you have a lot to lose... My biggest change was the lose of appetite for risk when I moved to a first world country. When you have a comfortable life it’s hard to kick out of it.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
langitbiru 6y ago
And there is a quote: "In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock." Sometimes I wonder whether one of the factors that makes US the mecca of technology is the lack of safety net there (compared to Europe).
- triceratops 6y ago
  > Sometimes I wonder whether one of the factors that makes US the mecca of technology is the lack of safety net there Not really. My bet is on the abundance of capital (hello global reserve currency) combined with excellent universities and a cultural willingness to take risks and do bold things. People who need a safety net, such as food stamps or housing assistance, are rarely the people who start big companies. They're usually too caught up in just trying to survive day-to-day.
  - tonyedgecombe 6y ago
    And a huge homogenous home market.
    - triceratops 6y ago
      Yep agreed.
- gherkinnn 6y ago
  That's from Jeremy Clarkson, innit? Despite that quote being mostly wrong [0][1], a safety net might account for some idleness. But there's more. You might find a local variation of the Law of Jante [2], for example. 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_mercenaries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_mercenaries 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckoo_clock#First_modern_cuckoo_clocks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckoo_clock#First_modern_cuck... 2 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante
  - HPsquared 6y ago
    It's said by Orson Welles' character in "The Third Man" (1949). Famous quote, allegedly ad-libbed: https://youtu.be/I8RW3K3hhWU https://youtu.be/I8RW3K3hhWU
- durnygbur 6y ago
  > they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock." Hey, the Swiss evolved the cuckoo clock into a wristwatch... nope, even this innovation was by two Polish and Czech immigrants.
- jandrewrogers 6y ago
  The primary advantage of the US is cultural. It is not just the anomalously high risk tolerance and wealth, but people who attempt audacious goals tend to be celebrated. Americans shed the Tall Poppy Syndrome that is a very visible feature of virtually all other European cultures, perhaps because the US was predominantly settled by "tall poppies". After years of working in various parts of Europe, I think it distills down to this. Sufficient talent, desire, and capital exists in Europe -- it is missing no ingredients -- but society there pervasively and subtly undermines anyone who dreams of attempting something really bold. It is a shame.
  - UMetaGOMS 6y ago
    To put it another way, European culture values humility over ego, and does not applaud those who manage to exploit those "lesser" than themselves quite so much.
    - povik 6y ago
      No, you are not putting it another way. Achievement is not “exploiting those lesser than themselves”.
- mahkeiro 6y ago
  It’s not like Switzerland has one of the highest number of nobel prize and patent per capita in the world... That’s really not a spot on cliché quote...
- z_zetetic_z 6y ago
  Cuckoo clocks originated in the Black Forest in Germany, north of the Swiss border. People associate them with Switzerland because of innovative marketing!
dbspin 6y ago
I don't know how egalitarian it is. Having visited Geneva and spoken with many people there about the crazy high cost of living - it seems that most low wage earners survive by living in nearby French towns and commuting in to work. That's an economy maintained by the indentured servitude of non-native people.
- durnygbur 6y ago
  > it seems that most low wage earners survive by living in nearby French towns and commuting in to work My interviews with Swiss companies when discussing the employment form usually turn to "you can live in France and commute daily to Switzerland". Yeah, thanks no thanks.
  - jlokier 6y ago
    I've done that and it was lovely! 20 minutes bike ride each way, crossing the border every morning and evening on my bike. Nicer than most commutes. In bad weather taking the bus, which was always on time and never delayed in traffic.
- izacus 6y ago
  The commute of most of those workers is usually less than half of what most rockstars of Sillicon Valley need to endure, not to mention that the public transport extends to border towns in France and is significantly better than the one in SV. Geneva lies directly on the border so those towns are way closer to most workplaces than Oakland is to San Francisco. The issue with Geneva is that there's no more physical space to build - but living in France with Swiss Geneva canton minimum wage will boost your quality of live way beyond most San Francisco dwellers.
  - durnygbur 6y ago
    The problem might be there are thousands of French, Italians, and other Europeans sharing the same Swiss dream while standing in the traffic jams. I doubt the rents by the Swiss border in France are at the "French level".

8ytecoder 6y ago

If you have a lot to lose... My biggest change was the lose of appetite for risk when I moved to a first world country. When you have a comfortable life it’s hard to kick out of it.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

langitbiru 6y ago

And there is a quote: "In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock." Sometimes I wonder whether one of the factors that makes US the mecca of technology is the lack of safety net there (compared to Europe).

triceratops 6y ago
> Sometimes I wonder whether one of the factors that makes US the mecca of technology is the lack of safety net there Not really. My bet is on the abundance of capital (hello global reserve currency) combined with excellent universities and a cultural willingness to take risks and do bold things. People who need a safety net, such as food stamps or housing assistance, are rarely the people who start big companies. They're usually too caught up in just trying to survive day-to-day.
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  And a huge homogenous home market.
  - triceratops 6y ago
    Yep agreed.
gherkinnn 6y ago
That's from Jeremy Clarkson, innit? Despite that quote being mostly wrong [0][1], a safety net might account for some idleness. But there's more. You might find a local variation of the Law of Jante [2], for example. 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_mercenaries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_mercenaries 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckoo_clock#First_modern_cuckoo_clocks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckoo_clock#First_modern_cuck... 2 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante
- HPsquared 6y ago
  It's said by Orson Welles' character in "The Third Man" (1949). Famous quote, allegedly ad-libbed: https://youtu.be/I8RW3K3hhWU https://youtu.be/I8RW3K3hhWU
durnygbur 6y ago
> they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock." Hey, the Swiss evolved the cuckoo clock into a wristwatch... nope, even this innovation was by two Polish and Czech immigrants.
jandrewrogers 6y ago
The primary advantage of the US is cultural. It is not just the anomalously high risk tolerance and wealth, but people who attempt audacious goals tend to be celebrated. Americans shed the Tall Poppy Syndrome that is a very visible feature of virtually all other European cultures, perhaps because the US was predominantly settled by "tall poppies". After years of working in various parts of Europe, I think it distills down to this. Sufficient talent, desire, and capital exists in Europe -- it is missing no ingredients -- but society there pervasively and subtly undermines anyone who dreams of attempting something really bold. It is a shame.
- UMetaGOMS 6y ago
  To put it another way, European culture values humility over ego, and does not applaud those who manage to exploit those "lesser" than themselves quite so much.
  - povik 6y ago
    No, you are not putting it another way. Achievement is not “exploiting those lesser than themselves”.
mahkeiro 6y ago
It’s not like Switzerland has one of the highest number of nobel prize and patent per capita in the world... That’s really not a spot on cliché quote...
z_zetetic_z 6y ago
Cuckoo clocks originated in the Black Forest in Germany, north of the Swiss border. People associate them with Switzerland because of innovative marketing!

dbspin 6y ago

I don't know how egalitarian it is. Having visited Geneva and spoken with many people there about the crazy high cost of living - it seems that most low wage earners survive by living in nearby French towns and commuting in to work. That's an economy maintained by the indentured servitude of non-native people.

durnygbur 6y ago
> it seems that most low wage earners survive by living in nearby French towns and commuting in to work My interviews with Swiss companies when discussing the employment form usually turn to "you can live in France and commute daily to Switzerland". Yeah, thanks no thanks.
- jlokier 6y ago
  I've done that and it was lovely! 20 minutes bike ride each way, crossing the border every morning and evening on my bike. Nicer than most commutes. In bad weather taking the bus, which was always on time and never delayed in traffic.
izacus 6y ago
The commute of most of those workers is usually less than half of what most rockstars of Sillicon Valley need to endure, not to mention that the public transport extends to border towns in France and is significantly better than the one in SV. Geneva lies directly on the border so those towns are way closer to most workplaces than Oakland is to San Francisco. The issue with Geneva is that there's no more physical space to build - but living in France with Swiss Geneva canton minimum wage will boost your quality of live way beyond most San Francisco dwellers.
- durnygbur 6y ago
  The problem might be there are thousands of French, Italians, and other Europeans sharing the same Swiss dream while standing in the traffic jams. I doubt the rents by the Swiss border in France are at the "French level".