5 ms·

I have a genuine question and I'm not trying to be snarky -- do people actually think this way in real life, or is it an elaborate social game of pretending to

I have a genuine question and I'm not trying to be snarky -- do people actually think this way in real life, or is it an elaborate social game of pretending to be more "passionate" than the next guy? Scale seems like a cool company with an interesting product, but let's be honest, rational people here - they aren't curing cancer, creating art, or landing on Normandy Beach. This seems obvious to any self-aware person. So why all the bravado?

tilolebo 6y ago
"Making the world a better place through ${place your product core feature here}"
- sean1524 6y ago
  Reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8C5sjjhsso https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8C5sjjhsso
  - tilolebo 6y ago
    That's exactly where it comes from :-)
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ThrowawayR2 6y ago
> "I have a genuine question and I'm not trying to be snarky -- do people actually think this way in real life, or is it an elaborate social game of pretending to be more "passionate" than the next guy?" The instinct for tribalism is strong and that tendency is aided by the cheerleading that's done at all-hands meetings and other motivational internal meetings. I have met more than a few people who were long term employees who were genuinely gung-ho about their employer but they had a rude awakening when the the business needed to do layoffs for the first time.
zimpenfish 6y ago
> do people actually think this way in real life Having had many interviews and a couple of jobs where my passion for the company seemed to be far more important than the quality of my experience, etc., yes.
anonymouse008 6y ago
> "I have a genuine question and I'm not trying to be snarky -- do people actually think this way in real life, or is it an elaborate social game of pretending to be more "passionate" than the next guy?" We have a slight issue with 'identity' in the US. I need to read more Tocqueville before I really start espousing any diagnostic on the psyche of the US but... This type of mindset is what occurs when someone searches for their identity and meaning then places that whole 'life's worth' in the form of businesses or enterprising endeavors. It can be broadly characterized as externalizing one's identity, which is painfully likely to fail or let you down in some way. In its most extreme forms, it's really a mental disorder (bordering the wildly high-functioning creative schizophrenic) that the Startup Zeitgeist has hailed as 'how to innovate' and find your 'life's work.' The disorders become evident once one sacrifices all of self at the alter of this 'give a shit' goal - burn out is not the goal of human life. I'll say I'm recovering from this mindset and have a fonder appreciation for what it means to foster a community (be that business, HOA, religious group, friend group, etc) that allows you to have a 'life's work' that gives you resources to flourish in ways you never thought you could.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- ceilingcorner 6y ago
  The real irony is that often the best work is only possible when you balance it with rest, family, and community. Writing for 12 hours a day probably isn't going to produce the next great American novel, so I'm skeptical that it will produce the next "great" startup either.
  - cvhashim 6y ago
    Agreed. I love Jason Fried of Basecamp thoughts about the meaning of doing good work while balancing that with a normal life. https://youtu.be/-YG0kMpzL_A https://youtu.be/-YG0kMpzL_A
fullshark 6y ago
When I first joined the industry I think I did, or convinced myself I did. Then I grew up.
treis 6y ago
>have a genuine question and I'm not trying to be snarky -- do people actually think this way in real life, or is it an elaborate social game of pretending to be more "passionate" than the next guy? IMHO, if someone has not once wanted something in their life and worked really hard to get it then that does raise an eyebrow. It doesn't have to be a job. It could be an instrument, sport, extra ciricular, school project, volunteer work, or really anything. If you haven't, it means you either have never wanted to achieve something or didn't want to put the effort in to try. Life happens and at some point we all make it to a point we are comfortable. So I think it's unfair to expect that out of a 45 year old with two kids. But if you get to be 45 without having really tried at something... well it's a bit sad.
sershe 6y ago
There are enough people in tech industry evidently passionate about work to work nights and weekends. I've actually seen all combinations on the spectrum of fun work / BS work (e.g. calling your engineers at night because something on a web page mostly used in the same time zone is not pixel perfect and being mad in the morning they were not available); young / old; and doing good work / crappy work while at it. So there's definitely something genuine to it, but many more have to fake it. I am working at a place where you don't have to fake it nearly at all and very happy about it... Think about it... it might seem unfair, "unfair" towards e.g. me. I'm usually only passionate if the work happens to be very interesting for me in particular, otherwise I'm going to do good work with passion about quality/etc., but only 9-6, after which I'll go be passionate about other things. But, I've worked with quite a few engineers similar to me in ability, or better, who would totally work 14 hours a day for no reason, no pressure or crunch. If a business had a choice, why would they hire me over these guys?

tilolebo 6y ago

"Making the world a better place through ${place your product core feature here}"

sean1524 6y ago
Reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8C5sjjhsso https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8C5sjjhsso
- tilolebo 6y ago
  That's exactly where it comes from :-)

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

ThrowawayR2 6y ago

> "I have a genuine question and I'm not trying to be snarky -- do people actually think this way in real life, or is it an elaborate social game of pretending to be more "passionate" than the next guy?" The instinct for tribalism is strong and that tendency is aided by the cheerleading that's done at all-hands meetings and other motivational internal meetings. I have met more than a few people who were long term employees who were genuinely gung-ho about their employer but they had a rude awakening when the the business needed to do layoffs for the first time.

zimpenfish 6y ago

> do people actually think this way in real life Having had many interviews and a couple of jobs where my passion for the company seemed to be far more important than the quality of my experience, etc., yes.

anonymouse008 6y ago

> "I have a genuine question and I'm not trying to be snarky -- do people actually think this way in real life, or is it an elaborate social game of pretending to be more "passionate" than the next guy?" We have a slight issue with 'identity' in the US. I need to read more Tocqueville before I really start espousing any diagnostic on the psyche of the US but... This type of mindset is what occurs when someone searches for their identity and meaning then places that whole 'life's worth' in the form of businesses or enterprising endeavors. It can be broadly characterized as externalizing one's identity, which is painfully likely to fail or let you down in some way. In its most extreme forms, it's really a mental disorder (bordering the wildly high-functioning creative schizophrenic) that the Startup Zeitgeist has hailed as 'how to innovate' and find your 'life's work.' The disorders become evident once one sacrifices all of self at the alter of this 'give a shit' goal - burn out is not the goal of human life. I'll say I'm recovering from this mindset and have a fonder appreciation for what it means to foster a community (be that business, HOA, religious group, friend group, etc) that allows you to have a 'life's work' that gives you resources to flourish in ways you never thought you could.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ceilingcorner 6y ago
The real irony is that often the best work is only possible when you balance it with rest, family, and community. Writing for 12 hours a day probably isn't going to produce the next great American novel, so I'm skeptical that it will produce the next "great" startup either.
- cvhashim 6y ago
  Agreed. I love Jason Fried of Basecamp thoughts about the meaning of doing good work while balancing that with a normal life. https://youtu.be/-YG0kMpzL_A https://youtu.be/-YG0kMpzL_A

fullshark 6y ago

When I first joined the industry I think I did, or convinced myself I did. Then I grew up.

treis 6y ago

>have a genuine question and I'm not trying to be snarky -- do people actually think this way in real life, or is it an elaborate social game of pretending to be more "passionate" than the next guy? IMHO, if someone has not once wanted something in their life and worked really hard to get it then that does raise an eyebrow. It doesn't have to be a job. It could be an instrument, sport, extra ciricular, school project, volunteer work, or really anything. If you haven't, it means you either have never wanted to achieve something or didn't want to put the effort in to try. Life happens and at some point we all make it to a point we are comfortable. So I think it's unfair to expect that out of a 45 year old with two kids. But if you get to be 45 without having really tried at something... well it's a bit sad.

sershe 6y ago

There are enough people in tech industry evidently passionate about work to work nights and weekends. I've actually seen all combinations on the spectrum of fun work / BS work (e.g. calling your engineers at night because something on a web page mostly used in the same time zone is not pixel perfect and being mad in the morning they were not available); young / old; and doing good work / crappy work while at it. So there's definitely something genuine to it, but many more have to fake it. I am working at a place where you don't have to fake it nearly at all and very happy about it... Think about it... it might seem unfair, "unfair" towards e.g. me. I'm usually only passionate if the work happens to be very interesting for me in particular, otherwise I'm going to do good work with passion about quality/etc., but only 9-6, after which I'll go be passionate about other things. But, I've worked with quite a few engineers similar to me in ability, or better, who would totally work 14 hours a day for no reason, no pressure or crunch. If a business had a choice, why would they hire me over these guys?