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For those railing against this essay, who feel that PG is fluffing himself up and patting himself on the back like a nerdy middleschooler -- you've missed the b

For those railing against this essay, who feel that PG is fluffing himself up and patting himself on the back like a nerdy middleschooler -- you've missed the big point, badly. PG writes unapologetically, directly, and simply, and this may pattern match to a naive middleschooler, but you are letting your base instincts cover up the fact that PG is wise, has earned his stripes, and is sharing his wisdom, unapologetically, directly, and simply. He knows exactly the kind of backlash he will receive and is prompting you for it intentionally. He's not writing for you or to you, and he cares not a whit what you think. He's writing to and for people like him, trying to help them put words and clear thought to vague understandings and apprehensions they've been wrestling with. He's not self-aggrandizing but student-aggrandizing, as the headmaster of a school of thought that he values deeply. If you hate the headmaster or his style or the school of thought, that's wonderful, but it's not at all relevant to his aims. I hope this sheds some light on the bigger picture for those unaware.

judofyr 6y ago
> He's writing to and for people like him, trying to help them put words and clear thought to vague understandings and apprehensions they've been wrestling with. Ah, yes, he's writing an article about how to think for yourself to the people who already think like him. So if we don't think like him, but rather in an independent way, then it makes sense that we wouldn't agree with this article. Got it!
- RickHull 6y ago
  Ha, you jest, but you bring up a subtle point. There are degrees and dimensions of similarity. For example, two people who uphold a principle of freedom of speech may nonetheless completely disagree on any particular issue. But they are very similar in an important way. Do you value independent thinking? If so, what part of the article did you most disagree with?
  - epsilonclose 6y ago
    Do independent thinkers read essays that tell them how to think independently? The irony may have been intentional on the author's part, but I still won't read the essay. Bad juju.
    - RickHull 6y ago
      Fair enough, but there is a structure and pattern to independent thinking relative to the universe of things we care about. By analogy, consider John Boyd's OODA loop. He broke down goal-seeking behavior into a 4 part loop: Observe Orient Decide Act. Now, some numps decided that they would then teach people to be better thinkers by having them step through this loop deliberately. i.e. We will teach you to reach your goals but first you must Observe. Next Orient, blah blah blah. This is not what John Boyd was teaching. Everyone does the OODA loop naturally. But if you break down goal-directed behavior into the OODA loop, as an analysis tool, you can find the techniques that are particularly effective versus those that aren't working very well. And if you can find things that speed up an OODA loop, or compromise your opponent's OODA loop, you can have outsized success with an otherwise "dull tactic". PG's essay is kind of like that. He's saying: here's how I think about independent thinking, how to recognize it, where it works, and where it doesn't. It's mostly descriptive and analytical, but nuggets of prescription are sprinkled in there as well. It's written for himself, in that it helps him organize his own thoughts, but primarily it is written for the benefit of his audience. It will glance off people uninterested in accepting its ideas but benefit those are similar to him in important ways. He's not "telling them how to think independently" but helping them be more effective in the use of that tool.
    - GeorgeTirebiter 6y ago
      I think there's more to it than that. Because conformity, especially social conformity among one's peers, is rampant - defenses need to be shored up to guard against this constant push toward conformity. Because all of us are caught up in our lives, it's helpful to take a moment, Read PG's latest, and reflect if has anything worthwhile for you. I like the Grateful Dead's Box of Rain: "Believe if you need it, or leave it if you dare."
  - judofyr 6y ago
    > Do you value independent thinking? If so, what part of the article did you most disagree with? I wholeheartedly value being creative and coming up with fresh ideas, but I don't see how this is in any way connected to an innate property of being either "conventional-minded" or "independent-thinkers". You could take his first four paragraphs (about scientists, investors, startup founders and essays) and continue as follows: This is why it's important to be creative and be able to come up with new ideas — even in the most well-established places. In this essay I will share various techniques I use to stay creative. But no, instead he divides the world into two categories ("independent-mindedness seems to be more a matter of nature than nurture"), says that you'll be most happy by doing your predestined work ("which means if you pick the wrong type of work, you're going to be unhappy"), and also outright says there are certain jobs that one of these groups can't do successfully.
  - mcguire 6y ago
    Independent thinking itself isn't a virtue. As someone else pointed out, prisons are full of nonconventional thinkers. The Time Cube guy has independent thinking out the wazoo. New ideas, like speech, are good or bad on their own merit.
  - ekabod 6y ago
    >Do you value independent thinking? is there somebody on earth that doesn't value independent thinking?
- unityByFreedom 6y ago
  /thread for me. Well said
Apocryphon 6y ago
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand pg. The wisdom is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical business most of the insights will go over a typical reader’s head. There's also pg’s positivistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Sam Altman literature, for instance.
- DanBC 6y ago
  > To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand pg Emperor's new essays.
- ssalazar 6y ago
  > To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand pg This isnt the defense of pg you think it to be.
  - the_af 6y ago
    It's not a defense of pg. That comment is paraphrasing a well-known meme about the Rick & Morty cartoon [1]. Someone wrote something very similar about Rick & Morty (though it's likely that it was itself a joke parodying R&M's toxic fandom). So I'd say it's an attack on pg's fandom. [1] https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/to-be-fair-you-have-to-have-a-very-high-iq-to-understand-rick-and-morty https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/to-be-fair-you-have-to-have-a...
    - ssalazar 6y ago
      Lol it certainly reads like satire. Shows me to “assume good faith.”
  - tqi 6y ago
    https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/to-be-fair-you-have-to-have-a-very-high-iq-to-understand-rick-and-morty https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/to-be-fair-you-have-to-have-a...
- Ar-Curunir 6y ago
mcguire 6y ago
"He's writing to and for people like him, trying to help them put words and clear thought to vague understandings and apprehensions they've been wrestling with." In other words, the conventionally unconventional? Those who are independent, but only in the right way?
- dang 6y ago
  People of similar temperament who have similar challenges and are perhaps younger? What's wrong with that? I don't see the need to be so cynical.
jacques_chester 6y ago
> For those railing against this essay, who feel that PG is fluffing himself up and patting himself on the back like a nerdy middleschooler -- you've missed the big point, badly. PG writes unapologetically, directly, and simply, and this may pattern match to a naive middleschooler, but you are letting your base instincts cover up the fact that PG is wise, has earned his stripes, and is sharing his wisdom, unapologetically, directly, and simply Being unapologetic, direct and simple doesn't make someone wise. Being wise makes someone wise. PG's essays read more and more like cut-rate Plato. Somehow, no matter where things begin, the topic eventually turns to "only I and my buddies should run Athens".
- RickHull 6y ago
  Which section of the essay reads "only I and my buddies should run Athens"?
stonogo 6y ago
"PG is wise, has earned his stripes" Or: he got rich in a historical paradigm shift, in a societal system built around preserving personal wealth. Lots of people got rich in the dot com boom, and their opinions are even today uninteresting and trite. I suggest you stop arguing to authority and take his essays on their own merit, which is a different approach than the rose-colored glasses you're using.

judofyr 6y ago

> He's writing to and for people like him, trying to help them put words and clear thought to vague understandings and apprehensions they've been wrestling with. Ah, yes, he's writing an article about how to think for yourself to the people who already think like him. So if we don't think like him, but rather in an independent way, then it makes sense that we wouldn't agree with this article. Got it!

RickHull 6y ago
Ha, you jest, but you bring up a subtle point. There are degrees and dimensions of similarity. For example, two people who uphold a principle of freedom of speech may nonetheless completely disagree on any particular issue. But they are very similar in an important way. Do you value independent thinking? If so, what part of the article did you most disagree with?
- epsilonclose 6y ago
  Do independent thinkers read essays that tell them how to think independently? The irony may have been intentional on the author's part, but I still won't read the essay. Bad juju.
  - RickHull 6y ago
    Fair enough, but there is a structure and pattern to independent thinking relative to the universe of things we care about. By analogy, consider John Boyd's OODA loop. He broke down goal-seeking behavior into a 4 part loop: Observe Orient Decide Act. Now, some numps decided that they would then teach people to be better thinkers by having them step through this loop deliberately. i.e. We will teach you to reach your goals but first you must Observe. Next Orient, blah blah blah. This is not what John Boyd was teaching. Everyone does the OODA loop naturally. But if you break down goal-directed behavior into the OODA loop, as an analysis tool, you can find the techniques that are particularly effective versus those that aren't working very well. And if you can find things that speed up an OODA loop, or compromise your opponent's OODA loop, you can have outsized success with an otherwise "dull tactic". PG's essay is kind of like that. He's saying: here's how I think about independent thinking, how to recognize it, where it works, and where it doesn't. It's mostly descriptive and analytical, but nuggets of prescription are sprinkled in there as well. It's written for himself, in that it helps him organize his own thoughts, but primarily it is written for the benefit of his audience. It will glance off people uninterested in accepting its ideas but benefit those are similar to him in important ways. He's not "telling them how to think independently" but helping them be more effective in the use of that tool.
  - GeorgeTirebiter 6y ago
    I think there's more to it than that. Because conformity, especially social conformity among one's peers, is rampant - defenses need to be shored up to guard against this constant push toward conformity. Because all of us are caught up in our lives, it's helpful to take a moment, Read PG's latest, and reflect if has anything worthwhile for you. I like the Grateful Dead's Box of Rain: "Believe if you need it, or leave it if you dare."
- judofyr 6y ago
  > Do you value independent thinking? If so, what part of the article did you most disagree with? I wholeheartedly value being creative and coming up with fresh ideas, but I don't see how this is in any way connected to an innate property of being either "conventional-minded" or "independent-thinkers". You could take his first four paragraphs (about scientists, investors, startup founders and essays) and continue as follows: This is why it's important to be creative and be able to come up with new ideas — even in the most well-established places. In this essay I will share various techniques I use to stay creative. But no, instead he divides the world into two categories ("independent-mindedness seems to be more a matter of nature than nurture"), says that you'll be most happy by doing your predestined work ("which means if you pick the wrong type of work, you're going to be unhappy"), and also outright says there are certain jobs that one of these groups can't do successfully.
- mcguire 6y ago
  Independent thinking itself isn't a virtue. As someone else pointed out, prisons are full of nonconventional thinkers. The Time Cube guy has independent thinking out the wazoo. New ideas, like speech, are good or bad on their own merit.
- ekabod 6y ago
  >Do you value independent thinking? is there somebody on earth that doesn't value independent thinking?
unityByFreedom 6y ago
/thread for me. Well said

Apocryphon 6y ago

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand pg. The wisdom is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical business most of the insights will go over a typical reader’s head. There's also pg’s positivistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Sam Altman literature, for instance.

DanBC 6y ago
> To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand pg Emperor's new essays.
ssalazar 6y ago
> To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand pg This isnt the defense of pg you think it to be.
- the_af 6y ago
  It's not a defense of pg. That comment is paraphrasing a well-known meme about the Rick & Morty cartoon [1]. Someone wrote something very similar about Rick & Morty (though it's likely that it was itself a joke parodying R&M's toxic fandom). So I'd say it's an attack on pg's fandom. [1] https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/to-be-fair-you-have-to-have-a-very-high-iq-to-understand-rick-and-morty https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/to-be-fair-you-have-to-have-a...
  - ssalazar 6y ago
    Lol it certainly reads like satire. Shows me to “assume good faith.”
- tqi 6y ago
  https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/to-be-fair-you-have-to-have-a-very-high-iq-to-understand-rick-and-morty https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/to-be-fair-you-have-to-have-a...
Ar-Curunir 6y ago

mcguire 6y ago

"He's writing to and for people like him, trying to help them put words and clear thought to vague understandings and apprehensions they've been wrestling with." In other words, the conventionally unconventional? Those who are independent, but only in the right way?

dang 6y ago
People of similar temperament who have similar challenges and are perhaps younger? What's wrong with that? I don't see the need to be so cynical.

jacques_chester 6y ago

> For those railing against this essay, who feel that PG is fluffing himself up and patting himself on the back like a nerdy middleschooler -- you've missed the big point, badly. PG writes unapologetically, directly, and simply, and this may pattern match to a naive middleschooler, but you are letting your base instincts cover up the fact that PG is wise, has earned his stripes, and is sharing his wisdom, unapologetically, directly, and simply Being unapologetic, direct and simple doesn't make someone wise. Being wise makes someone wise. PG's essays read more and more like cut-rate Plato. Somehow, no matter where things begin, the topic eventually turns to "only I and my buddies should run Athens".

RickHull 6y ago
Which section of the essay reads "only I and my buddies should run Athens"?

stonogo 6y ago

"PG is wise, has earned his stripes" Or: he got rich in a historical paradigm shift, in a societal system built around preserving personal wealth. Lots of people got rich in the dot com boom, and their opinions are even today uninteresting and trite. I suggest you stop arguing to authority and take his essays on their own merit, which is a different approach than the rose-colored glasses you're using.