3 ms·

For Americans - "identify cyclist driving through the downtown"

salawat 6y ago
Cyclists ride. They do not drive. Drive implies you aren't the prime mover in the mechanism (i.e., an engine is doing the work, and you're merely performing the task of executive signaling and control to that set of movers and systems carrying you along do so. The inflection point is actually legal in nature; in that once you slap a motor on it, you require licensure, because you're driving now. This is also why I disagree with driving being a privilege granted by the State; I'm not big on large edifi telling me I can only utilize mechanical devices at their whim, but such is life, yes, I've had the argument before, no I'm not going into it now). A cyclist, however is the mechanism. You can make the argument that it's silly, but I'll bet you more people will look at you funny for saying cyclists drive than for saying the operator of a motor vehicle rides especially given the legal baggage that comes with driving. Aside from that, they're quite easy to identify. They're usually the ones either breaking traffic laws, or being ignored/cursed at because their mere existance increases the volatility of motor vehicle traffic patterns in urban environments.
- oblio 6y ago
  First of all, they've self identified as non-American and presumably not a native English speaker. You could have presented the difference between drive and ride with less pedantry. Secondly, cities with large numbers of cyclists tend to have better, not worse traffic. It's obvious why: fewer people driving plus infrastructure for bikes is developed and separated from car infrastructure. You should wish for more cyclists, not fewer.
  - salawat 6y ago
    Unfortunately, you can't escape the need for pedantry as a native speaker, and as a non-native (which I sssumed they were), I generally find they appreciate th clarification. Arguably, what makes motor traffic "flow better" is increased predictability, and decreased demand on shared infrastructure. I'm not condemning all cyclists or saying it isn't worthwhil; merely that the arrangements we've got with them being sometimes pedestrians/sometimes road users leads to a cultural clash that leaves everyone frustrated. The entire urban network architecture leaves quite a lot to be desired.
- durnygbur 6y ago
  > being ignored/cursed at I would certainly not wish to be ignored by wagons, trucks, and SUVs while cycling through American cities.
  - salawat 6y ago
    I'm not one of those who ignores them. Quite to the contrary. I've been known to roll down the window and ask someone to please pull ahead of my A-pillar. I speak only from having seen others behavior.
deathanatos 6y ago
As an American cyclist who frequented SF… this gave me a good chuckle, thank you. True story: Had a driver who swerved from the left-hand lane, across a lane of traffic, across the bike lane, and into a drive way, after I yelled at him (while rapidly braking) tell me "I didn't see you." I've got 3 reflectors (from his PoV), I'm wearing long sleeves reflective highlighter safety orange, and it's daylight…

Cyclists ride. They do not drive. Drive implies you aren't the prime mover in the mechanism (i.e., an engine is doing the work, and you're merely performing the task of executive signaling and control to that set of movers and systems carrying you along do so. The inflection point is actually legal in nature; in that once you slap a motor on it, you require licensure, because you're driving now. This is also why I disagree with driving being a privilege granted by the State; I'm not big on large edifi telling me I can only utilize mechanical devices at their whim, but such is life, yes, I've had the argument before, no I'm not going into it now). A cyclist, however is the mechanism. You can make the argument that it's silly, but I'll bet you more people will look at you funny for saying cyclists drive than for saying the operator of a motor vehicle rides especially given the legal baggage that comes with driving. Aside from that, they're quite easy to identify. They're usually the ones either breaking traffic laws, or being ignored/cursed at because their mere existance increases the volatility of motor vehicle traffic patterns in urban environments.

oblio 6y ago
First of all, they've self identified as non-American and presumably not a native English speaker. You could have presented the difference between drive and ride with less pedantry. Secondly, cities with large numbers of cyclists tend to have better, not worse traffic. It's obvious why: fewer people driving plus infrastructure for bikes is developed and separated from car infrastructure. You should wish for more cyclists, not fewer.
- salawat 6y ago
  Unfortunately, you can't escape the need for pedantry as a native speaker, and as a non-native (which I sssumed they were), I generally find they appreciate th clarification. Arguably, what makes motor traffic "flow better" is increased predictability, and decreased demand on shared infrastructure. I'm not condemning all cyclists or saying it isn't worthwhil; merely that the arrangements we've got with them being sometimes pedestrians/sometimes road users leads to a cultural clash that leaves everyone frustrated. The entire urban network architecture leaves quite a lot to be desired.
durnygbur 6y ago
> being ignored/cursed at I would certainly not wish to be ignored by wagons, trucks, and SUVs while cycling through American cities.
- salawat 6y ago
  I'm not one of those who ignores them. Quite to the contrary. I've been known to roll down the window and ask someone to please pull ahead of my A-pillar. I speak only from having seen others behavior.

deathanatos 6y ago

As an American cyclist who frequented SF… this gave me a good chuckle, thank you. True story: Had a driver who swerved from the left-hand lane, across a lane of traffic, across the bike lane, and into a drive way, after I yelled at him (while rapidly braking) tell me "I didn't see you." I've got 3 reflectors (from his PoV), I'm wearing long sleeves reflective highlighter safety orange, and it's daylight…