5 ms·

You’re not seeing the bigger picture. Once everyone starts doing this there will be no where else for you to go.

forrestthewoods 6y ago
I can go to places that don’t use this type of data to make bad decisions. Some places give employee ratings based on number of bugs fixed, lines of code written, or commits made. This is stupid. This data is also available to basically all companies. The fix is NOT to block that commit or bug counts from being visible. The fix is to not over index on that data when making rating or promotion decisions.
- johnisgood 6y ago
  > I can go to places that don’t use this type of data to make bad decisions. Now re-read the post you replied to. > Once everyone starts doing this there will be no where else for you to go. No, you will not go anywhere where this practice is NOT done, because it will become widespread and you will have to be really lucky to find such a place where those practices are not done. That is, if they set a precedent and companies follow and people tolerate. > probably just a bad company to work for. Shit will happen when the majority of the companies will be bad companies to work for.
  - forrestthewoods 6y ago
    > because it will become widespread I press 'F' for doubt. Lots of irrelevant data is already available. It has never been used against me. The presence of additional irrelevant data does not seem likely to change this. Could be wrong! Feel free to ping me in 5 years and we’ll see if I regret everything. But I don’t anticipate significant grief over this.
- hnracer 6y ago
  Just like you can go to companies that don't have open office plans? Sometimes these pernicious fashion trends spread so far and wide that in practice you're stuck with it
  - forrestthewoods 6y ago
    Open office plans benefit the employer. It saves them money. Using bad data to make bad decisions about employee careers does not benefit the employer. Most of this information is already available. I don’t anticipate this actually being a problem. I could be wrong! But so far in my 14 year career I’ve not been held back by bad decisions based on bugs closed, lines of code written, or diffs landed. I do not anticipate a new set of even less relevant data changing this.
    - hnracer 6y ago
      Agree with your first paragraph. Regarding whether it'll be used in a deleterious way I guess that'll depend on the boss. I could see it making bad bosses even worse but leaving good bosses unaffected.
      - forrestthewoods 6y ago
        > I could see it making bad bosses even worse but leaving good bosses unaffected. That seems extremely reasonable to me. Bad/Good bosses. And companies with bad/less bad review and promotion systems.
    - tirpen 6y ago
      > Using bad data to make bad decisions about employee careers does not benefit the employer. It's another useless number that they can pretend to care about when negotiating salaries in order to keep down wages. - "Weeeellll... I can se that your Productiiiivity score is just at 74.3%, the average in your team is 77.6% so I'm affraid that it's really impossible for me to increase your salary as things are looking out. I'm reaaaally sorry. Have a good one!"
alisonkisk 6y ago
Office Space had TPS reports in 1999. Companies aren't waiting for Microsoft's support to abuse their staff.
- robertlagrant 6y ago
  No, but little Hitlers lurk in every company!
- trianglem 6y ago
  Maybe not actively but you’re underestimating how making things simple will help terrible practices like this propagate easily.

I can go to places that don’t use this type of data to make bad decisions. Some places give employee ratings based on number of bugs fixed, lines of code written, or commits made. This is stupid. This data is also available to basically all companies. The fix is NOT to block that commit or bug counts from being visible. The fix is to not over index on that data when making rating or promotion decisions.

johnisgood 6y ago
> I can go to places that don’t use this type of data to make bad decisions. Now re-read the post you replied to. > Once everyone starts doing this there will be no where else for you to go. No, you will not go anywhere where this practice is NOT done, because it will become widespread and you will have to be really lucky to find such a place where those practices are not done. That is, if they set a precedent and companies follow and people tolerate. > probably just a bad company to work for. Shit will happen when the majority of the companies will be bad companies to work for.
- forrestthewoods 6y ago
  > because it will become widespread I press 'F' for doubt. Lots of irrelevant data is already available. It has never been used against me. The presence of additional irrelevant data does not seem likely to change this. Could be wrong! Feel free to ping me in 5 years and we’ll see if I regret everything. But I don’t anticipate significant grief over this.
hnracer 6y ago
Just like you can go to companies that don't have open office plans? Sometimes these pernicious fashion trends spread so far and wide that in practice you're stuck with it
- forrestthewoods 6y ago
  Open office plans benefit the employer. It saves them money. Using bad data to make bad decisions about employee careers does not benefit the employer. Most of this information is already available. I don’t anticipate this actually being a problem. I could be wrong! But so far in my 14 year career I’ve not been held back by bad decisions based on bugs closed, lines of code written, or diffs landed. I do not anticipate a new set of even less relevant data changing this.
  - hnracer 6y ago
    Agree with your first paragraph. Regarding whether it'll be used in a deleterious way I guess that'll depend on the boss. I could see it making bad bosses even worse but leaving good bosses unaffected.
    - forrestthewoods 6y ago
      > I could see it making bad bosses even worse but leaving good bosses unaffected. That seems extremely reasonable to me. Bad/Good bosses. And companies with bad/less bad review and promotion systems.
  - tirpen 6y ago
    > Using bad data to make bad decisions about employee careers does not benefit the employer. It's another useless number that they can pretend to care about when negotiating salaries in order to keep down wages. - "Weeeellll... I can se that your Productiiiivity score is just at 74.3%, the average in your team is 77.6% so I'm affraid that it's really impossible for me to increase your salary as things are looking out. I'm reaaaally sorry. Have a good one!"

alisonkisk 6y ago

Office Space had TPS reports in 1999. Companies aren't waiting for Microsoft's support to abuse their staff.

robertlagrant 6y ago
No, but little Hitlers lurk in every company!
trianglem 6y ago
Maybe not actively but you’re underestimating how making things simple will help terrible practices like this propagate easily.