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You’d think Apple would just hire someone to do this for them, in Java. There are maybe 10,000 concerns they could pay for to resolve, with clear no nonsense ob
by an_opabinia 6y ago
You’d think Apple would just hire someone to do this for them, in Java. There are maybe 10,000 concerns they could pay for to resolve, with clear no nonsense objectives like “Does Java2D run on Metal?” And the crazy thing is they have the money to do it.
- adamnemecek 6y agoApple has vested interest in users not running Java on their platform.
- onewland 6y agoI've worked at Apple and hundreds if not thousands of their devs use Java
- chrisseaton 6y agoThat's interesting - what is Apple building on Java? They're still on Java 6 I think? I thought they deprecated their Java system APIs years ago as well?
- anton96 6y agoI’m pretty sure I saw the word «webObject» in my url bar while being redirected to their site at some point.
- vhogemann 6y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebObjects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebObjects
- jolux 6y agoI bet most of their Java usage is web services and not Swing client apps.
- ex3ndr 6y agoTheir FoundationDB has java Record Layer and in their keynotes they specify that it is used in iCloud and it is basically all icloud is java based
- threeseed 6y agoBeen a while since I worked at Apple but it would likely still be: - Apple ID - Apple Online Store - App Store - Bug Reporter/Radar - iCloud Apps e.g. Mail. - iTunes Connect - iTunes Store - WWDC Pretty much all of the internal apps will be in Java unless they are using off the shelf software e.g. discussions. In addition you would have all of the companies they acquired and whatever tech stacks they use e.g. Siri.
- jen20 6y agoApple have an OSS framework built on Netty (whose lead developer is employed by Apple) named ServiceTalk, and this talk [1] says that almost all back end services are Java-based. I have no idea where the idea of Java 6 being in use comes from. [1]: https://youtu.be/Ms8vriZ6ieU https://youtu.be/Ms8vriZ6ieU
- toyg 6y ago> where the idea of Java 6 being in use comes from Possibly from confusion with the last time Apple actually shipped a JDK/runtime to the public. They used to produce their own optimized distribution, which had better Cocoa widgets among other things. It was part of the original big push to get decs on OSX, it’s mentioned in Jobs’s keynotes etc. They later deprecated it once they reached critical mass, and discontinued it; if i remember correctly, the last jdk they shipped was a v6.
- adamnemecek 6y agoNot for building apps though, right?
- onewland 6y agonot sure what you mean by "apps" but I am talking back-end mostly
- adamnemecek 6y agoI mean desktop apps, not backends.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- vemv 6y agoI think this is true to a certain extent. They'd rather have developers create UIs with Swift/ObjC, which tend to look and perform better on Mac. i.e. it's probably more about fostering great UIs for the end customers rather than curbing Java altogether as a platform.
- kitsunesoba 6y agoYes, it’s more likely that an app written with Swift/Obj-C and AppKit/UIKit/SwiftUI will be more tailored to macOS specifically and will better take advantage of platform facilities than apps written with a different language and toolkit (such as Java+ Swing). Apps built with third party tools tend to be more lowest-common-denominator.
- p2t2p 6y agoNobody cares, proved by electron and popularity of web apps in general. The only b thing Apple will achieve is to speed up the native going into irrelevance and being replaced with things like electron. Regular people don't care about "looks and feels native" zealots. All the relevant software has distinct, software specific looks. Adobe suite, Fusion, bunch of engineering tools, IDEs.
- Oreb 6y agoRegular Mac users _used to_ care. For many years, one of the defining characteristics of Macs was the high quality native apps, all with consistent look, feel and behavior. Mac users would refuse to use apps that weren't sufficiently Mac-like. Developers of Mac apps had a similar passion and perfectionism for good UX and UI. Somewhere along the way, this part of Apple culture got lost. I think Apple's commercial success is part of the reason. The traditional Mac user base got diluted by lots of newcomers who didn't have the same high expectations and requirements for good and consistent user interfaces. The traditional Mac developers got diluted by programmers from other platforms, who – although not being technically inferior in any way – did not have the same passion or understanding of Apple's UI philosophy, often not even bothering to study the Human Interface Guidelines.
- urda 6y agoThis simply is not true.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- pvg 6y agoThis specific thing is much more a JetBrains (and their customers) problem than an Apple problem and it looks like they've managed to put together a good solution - do the work and have some assurance it's going to end up in the mainline OpenJDK. They've been selling their tools on macOS for many years, have shipped plenty of custom JDKs before, it's safe to assume they have a decent idea what they're doing.
- webwielder2 6y ago“Does Java2D run on Metal?” doesn't seem like a top 10,000 question for Apple. It does however seem like a top 10 question for JetBrains. And so here we are.
- Technically 6y agoHow do you figure? Making the native graphics api available to popular toolsets seems pretty straightforward OS work.
- patmorgan23 6y agoBut Apple wants people to use swift not Java.
- Technically 6y agoI think swift is more of a means than an end, but yea they haven't had much JVM support for a long time looking at wikipedia. This is a little nuts to me—I first learned to use cocoa with Java!
- chrisseaton 6y agoThat’s not the Apple strategy though is it? They don’t want to be running around making Swing and SWT and Qt and Gtk work well on macOS. They offer their own and you can take it or leave it. I guess this lets them simplify and focus. It obviously works for them.
- geodel 6y agoI wouldn't think at all. Just like I do not think Microsoft would implement Swift backend for windows.
- fomine3 6y agoIt looks like much possible than Apple will do.