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I know exactly who posted the article, thank you. I simply disagree that you can be a frontend engineer in the usual meaning it has without some level of those

by jiofih 6y ago

I know exactly who posted the article, thank you. I simply disagree that you can be a frontend engineer in the usual meaning it has without some level of those skills. Doesn’t mean anyone is less capable, deserving or cannot make a living that way.

ericmcer 6y ago
But he is literally one of the most successful front end engineers of all time and lacks those skills. Your takeaway from the article is it’s antithesis.
- jodrellblank 6y ago
  I simply don't believe he lacks those skills. He says "Python. I feel bad about this one — I have worked with Python for several years at some point and I’ve never bothered to actually learn it." He's skilled at JavaScript and C# and worked with Python for years, what's the betting he's as good as any typical Python developer, if not better? Pretty good, I'd think. > "I struggle to read either LISP-inspired (like Clojure), Haskell-inspired (like Elm), or ML-inspired (like OCaml) code" How many people don't know Haskell but can successfully struggle through reading it instead of having their eyes glaze over and completely refuse to try? > "CORS. I dread these errors! I know I need to set up some headers to fix them but I’ve wasted hours here in the past." "I don't know it - but I've also worked on it and know how to fix it and done so" - hmmmm. I suspect he is more capable than he's making out; politely talking himself down.
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    > I suspect he is more capable than he's making out; politely talking himself down. Why? If you are heads down working on core Javascript technologies, why do you step over and dig into learning more than the basics of Python? Likewise most of these languages/ skills.
    - jodrellblank 6y ago
      Because I've seen what people who "don't know Python" post on the internet. They can't match parentheses, can't make code that runs at all, don't know the difference between a string and an int, can't distinguish function return from printing. They definitely aren't people who have skills in JavaScript, C#, know the basics of Big-O notation and have worked with Python for several years. I'll accept his word that he doesn't know the details of Python module imports, that he isn't an expert, but surely there's a difference between "not expert at X" and "don't know X"?
      - ogre_codes 6y ago
        > They can't match parentheses, can't make code that runs at all, don't know the difference between a string and an int, can't distinguish function return from printing. You are commingling "Don't understand programming" with "Don't understand Python here. It's pretty clear that an experienced developer is going to understand parenthesis matching. But regardless of how many years of experience you have in Javascript, the first time you see a Python list comprehension you are likely to scratch your head for a bit. Python lambdas are also quite alien if you aren't familiar with them. FWIW, I was a professional developer for 10+ years before I knew learned Big O notation. I know a fair number of junior and even senior developers who don't know Big O notation even now. I knew how to avoid Big O type problems long before I knew the terminology.
        jodrellblank 6y ago
        > "the first time you see a Python list comprehension you are likely to scratch your head for a bit. Python lambdas are also quite alien if you aren't familiar with them." The first time, sure. After several years of working with Python? He does say that. "I have worked with Python for several years".
ogre_codes 6y ago
Not that I agree with your list of "essential" skills for a front end web developer. You are still missing the point. Dan isn't a frontend engineer in the usual sense. He works on the underpinnings of the language, he's not building web sites.
- jiofih 6y ago
  That was exactly my point.
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    Maybe you should re-read the post your penned then. Because from my perspective, it sounds like you feel a highly recognized javascript developer isn't qualified to work as a front-end developer.

by jiofih 6y ago

ericmcer 6y ago

But he is literally one of the most successful front end engineers of all time and lacks those skills. Your takeaway from the article is it’s antithesis.

jodrellblank 6y ago
I simply don't believe he lacks those skills. He says "Python. I feel bad about this one — I have worked with Python for several years at some point and I’ve never bothered to actually learn it." He's skilled at JavaScript and C# and worked with Python for years, what's the betting he's as good as any typical Python developer, if not better? Pretty good, I'd think. > "I struggle to read either LISP-inspired (like Clojure), Haskell-inspired (like Elm), or ML-inspired (like OCaml) code" How many people don't know Haskell but can successfully struggle through reading it instead of having their eyes glaze over and completely refuse to try? > "CORS. I dread these errors! I know I need to set up some headers to fix them but I’ve wasted hours here in the past." "I don't know it - but I've also worked on it and know how to fix it and done so" - hmmmm. I suspect he is more capable than he's making out; politely talking himself down.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  > I suspect he is more capable than he's making out; politely talking himself down. Why? If you are heads down working on core Javascript technologies, why do you step over and dig into learning more than the basics of Python? Likewise most of these languages/ skills.
  - jodrellblank 6y ago
    Because I've seen what people who "don't know Python" post on the internet. They can't match parentheses, can't make code that runs at all, don't know the difference between a string and an int, can't distinguish function return from printing. They definitely aren't people who have skills in JavaScript, C#, know the basics of Big-O notation and have worked with Python for several years. I'll accept his word that he doesn't know the details of Python module imports, that he isn't an expert, but surely there's a difference between "not expert at X" and "don't know X"?
    - ogre_codes 6y ago
      > They can't match parentheses, can't make code that runs at all, don't know the difference between a string and an int, can't distinguish function return from printing. You are commingling "Don't understand programming" with "Don't understand Python here. It's pretty clear that an experienced developer is going to understand parenthesis matching. But regardless of how many years of experience you have in Javascript, the first time you see a Python list comprehension you are likely to scratch your head for a bit. Python lambdas are also quite alien if you aren't familiar with them. FWIW, I was a professional developer for 10+ years before I knew learned Big O notation. I know a fair number of junior and even senior developers who don't know Big O notation even now. I knew how to avoid Big O type problems long before I knew the terminology.
      - jodrellblank 6y ago
        > "the first time you see a Python list comprehension you are likely to scratch your head for a bit. Python lambdas are also quite alien if you aren't familiar with them." The first time, sure. After several years of working with Python? He does say that. "I have worked with Python for several years".

ogre_codes 6y ago

Not that I agree with your list of "essential" skills for a front end web developer. You are still missing the point. Dan isn't a frontend engineer in the usual sense. He works on the underpinnings of the language, he's not building web sites.

jiofih 6y ago
That was exactly my point.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  Maybe you should re-read the post your penned then. Because from my perspective, it sounds like you feel a highly recognized javascript developer isn't qualified to work as a front-end developer.