6 ms·

And if i may note, also a host of weird bugs and limitations that require you to own an apple device to debug and work around them. Safari is the closest you'l

And if i may note, also a host of weird bugs and limitations that require you to own an apple device to debug and work around them. Safari is the closest you'll get to IE6 for todays web designer. (although clearly not as bad, if you look over the hardware lock in)

nwienert 6y ago
Well of course you need to debug them on an Apple device. But by nature of you not developing with Safari you likely are highly biased to see bugs because.. you aren’t developing for it. The IE6 claim just isn’t true at all. Safari has a few quirks but in terms of rendering bugs it’s quite close to spec on everything, with a couple CSS Grid issues. Comparing to IE6 is a ridiculous exaggeration, Chrome with the many non-spec features and codecs it throws in is more comparable. Firefox has as many quirks. I’ve built many large sites including one right now. I develop in Chrome for the dev tools, then check in Firefox and Safari at intervals. Neither is usually broken by much. You have to polyfill a bit more for Safari (usually those features Chrome has been throwing at the wall, IE6 style), but usually fix more rendering differences for Firefox. In terms of consistency, the three have converged greatly. I used to dev for IE6/Mozilla and it was absolutely nothing like it is today.
- jakub_g 6y ago
  Safari is nowhere near IE6, but it's the closest when you compare it to all other modern browsers. We could say it's new IE11. Just this month I came across the following Safari-only bugs/compat issues: - document.hidden can be initially true even if the user is in foreground tab - visibilitychange event was not bubbling to window until Safari 14 - ReferenceError when you have a const + hoisted function inside a block scope Using anything newer than 2010 APIs, I always first check caniuse and MDN to see an inevitable list of Safari bugs and missing compat (and contribute myself when I find new ones).
  - nwienert 6y ago
    Still nowhere near as comparable, and cherry picking doesn't really make a great case. Safari is updated on a super-regular schedule. In accordance with specs, they aren't very weird at all, they just support a few less than others. But in terms of quirks in rendering, they are arguable ahead of FF. IE11 was known for way behind in every aspect, that's not the case for Safari. It's maybe a little behind in specs, but way ahead in other areas. Here's an arbitrary list of things it supports that Chrome doesn't: - better css filter() support, blur support - font-variant-alternatives - various font values: ui-rounded, ui-serif, etc - improved selector list CSS - Audio Tracks, Video Tracks, Web Share - HTTP/3 live in big sur - better position: sticky / display: contents - Better web animations api support And again, it literally feels about 2-3x faster than Chrome, battery lasts significantly longer, UI responsiveness is way ahead. Safari feels far better than any other browser, supports a number of important features others don't, and what it does support it renders as nearly as consistently as others. I fully agree it's dragged it's feet on a few features, but that's also partially in relation to Chrome tossing in the kitchen sink.

nwienert 6y ago

Well of course you need to debug them on an Apple device. But by nature of you not developing with Safari you likely are highly biased to see bugs because.. you aren’t developing for it. The IE6 claim just isn’t true at all. Safari has a few quirks but in terms of rendering bugs it’s quite close to spec on everything, with a couple CSS Grid issues. Comparing to IE6 is a ridiculous exaggeration, Chrome with the many non-spec features and codecs it throws in is more comparable. Firefox has as many quirks. I’ve built many large sites including one right now. I develop in Chrome for the dev tools, then check in Firefox and Safari at intervals. Neither is usually broken by much. You have to polyfill a bit more for Safari (usually those features Chrome has been throwing at the wall, IE6 style), but usually fix more rendering differences for Firefox. In terms of consistency, the three have converged greatly. I used to dev for IE6/Mozilla and it was absolutely nothing like it is today.

jakub_g 6y ago
Safari is nowhere near IE6, but it's the closest when you compare it to all other modern browsers. We could say it's new IE11. Just this month I came across the following Safari-only bugs/compat issues: - document.hidden can be initially true even if the user is in foreground tab - visibilitychange event was not bubbling to window until Safari 14 - ReferenceError when you have a const + hoisted function inside a block scope Using anything newer than 2010 APIs, I always first check caniuse and MDN to see an inevitable list of Safari bugs and missing compat (and contribute myself when I find new ones).
- nwienert 6y ago
  Still nowhere near as comparable, and cherry picking doesn't really make a great case. Safari is updated on a super-regular schedule. In accordance with specs, they aren't very weird at all, they just support a few less than others. But in terms of quirks in rendering, they are arguable ahead of FF. IE11 was known for way behind in every aspect, that's not the case for Safari. It's maybe a little behind in specs, but way ahead in other areas. Here's an arbitrary list of things it supports that Chrome doesn't: - better css filter() support, blur support - font-variant-alternatives - various font values: ui-rounded, ui-serif, etc - improved selector list CSS - Audio Tracks, Video Tracks, Web Share - HTTP/3 live in big sur - better position: sticky / display: contents - Better web animations api support And again, it literally feels about 2-3x faster than Chrome, battery lasts significantly longer, UI responsiveness is way ahead. Safari feels far better than any other browser, supports a number of important features others don't, and what it does support it renders as nearly as consistently as others. I fully agree it's dragged it's feet on a few features, but that's also partially in relation to Chrome tossing in the kitchen sink.