6 ms·

I drive one, in the Netherlands, where the climate and road conditions are such that those are not a factor at all. The only reason I drive it is because it's s

by roel_v 6y ago

I drive one, in the Netherlands, where the climate and road conditions are such that those are not a factor at all. The only reason I drive it is because it's so comfortable to sit higher up, and to have a better view of the road that way. It's comfortable to get in and out of (I'm 40 years old, work out several times a week, no mobility issues whatsoever - I still find it more comfortable). This is the second SUV I have, before that I had a tiny car and thought the same as you do, it was only once I started driving one that I started to see why people like them. I don't think for transitioning to EV the form factor will be the problem. BMW will start delivering the first EV versions of my current car (X3) next year. For me, charging it where I live (city center) is the problem. Every time I see my neighbour roll his extension cord across the sidewalk I think 'no way I'm going to do that'.

danieldk 6y ago
Not intended in a nasty way, just factual: The only reason I drive it is because it's so comfortable to sit higher up, and to have a better view of the road that way. And thereby blocking the view of 'regular' cars.
- roel_v 6y ago
  Only to a degree I think - when you're sitting in a lower car, you can't view over other cars anyway. I guess you can see through other cars' windows, which is harder when the other cars are higher, like for me when I'm between several trucks. I don't recall that as being a 'problem' as such from when I drove a lower car. Maybe other people experience it differently.
  - maccard 6y ago
    Any junction where there's a lane on your outside, a person in a "normal" sized car is unable to see through into the junction. For some reason, all of the traffic lights installed in my city now don't have a set of lights at the far side of the junction visible, so there is a fairly large window where you can be stuck with no visibility of the traffic lights in 2 lanes of traffic if you might have a filter light. There's also rear view mirrors (big vehicle takes up more of my window, so I can't see if there's a bike coming)
  - holstvoogd 6y ago
    Main issue I always had with SUVs is the lights. They all have way to bright xenon lights. When you drive a sports car (I drove a fiat coupe & a mx-5/Miata) in the dark you cannot see anything when a SUV is behind you. Not to speak of opposing(?) traffic on smaller roads. I almost died several times ;) Very happy to no longer have a car.
- saiya-jin 6y ago
  This is argument of people that don't know how to drive well & safely. Maybe not tailgating every other car and just keeping the safe distance would be enough? It definitely is for me and my car is lower than average sedan.
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    It goes both ways. If the person in front of you isn't driving like such an jerk that you need to be looking around them to predict their moves or to find a passing opportunity it's not really a big deal.
- afiori 6y ago
  In terms of perspective a raised POV can generally help with visibility, independetly to how tall other cars are. Or even how tall the windscreen is can be a significant factor, in my car it is so short that the rearview mirror covers a significant part of the street.
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  And thereby blocking the view of 'regular' cars. And small children.
- dzhiurgis 6y ago
  How about trucks, buses, semis, delivery trucks and all other machinery?
DoingIsLearning 6y ago
I can definitely see why people like them and thanks for being transparent about it rather than try to justify it with secondary reasons. My only suggestion is irrespective of the environmental aspect is, do check the performance of your next SUV with regards to "Pedestrian Safety" crash tests (Also standardized by Euro NCAP). Specially when you mentioned city center, and The Netherlands. The difference between a regular sedan and an SUV could be the difference between a kid with fractured legs or the weight of forever taking someone's life.
- Acinyx 6y ago
  I kind of wonder if what we Europeans call SUVs is really what a lot of thew people in these threads think about. For example, I am going to buy a new car in the next 2 years, so looking a bit, and two cars I might be choosing behind would be the: Peugeot 3008/5008, seen as a SUV in the Netherlands: 67% Pedestrian Euro NCAP score: https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/peugeot/3008/5008/26581 https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/peugeot/3008/5008/26581 Peugeot 208, smaller car, same brand, same year: 56% https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/peugeot/208/38543 https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/peugeot/208/38543 Or the original posters BMW X3: 70% https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/bmw/x3-/-x4/33285 https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/bmw/x3-/-x4/33285 Otoh, the BMW 3 series: 87% https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/bmw/3-series/38531 https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/bmw/3-series/38531 Full electric BMW i3: 57% https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/bmw/i3/8863 https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/bmw/i3/8863 So what I am trying to say is: yes, "SUV" in general are likely to be worse for pedestrians, but there is so much variability, that "picking a SUV" doesn't mean much about safety.
  - DoingIsLearning 6y ago
    I understand the concern but it is not based on comparable data. A few things to take into account: - The 67℅ in the test in 2016 for the Peugeot 3008 is based on a Pedestrian Impact performance. - The 56% of the test in 2019 for Peugeot 208 is based on a Pedestrian Impact Performance _and_ ADAS pedestrian detection +Automatic Emergency Braking (AEB) performance An important point with Euro NCAP is that typically the tests are always getting harder year on year to account for the expected technological development. Such that the same car would progressively score less if it were to repeat the Euro NCAP test year on year. I hope this helps your concern. In 'standard height' cars the first impact is usually on lower limbs or torso and secondary trauma to the head will happen on the bonnet or windshield. In SUV's, pedestrian and cyclists are much likely to suffer head trauma on first impact. My point is, in the horrific scenario that this should happens the survival rate will always be higher for non-SUV vehicles (ideally with longer bonnets and pedestrian friendly deformable structures).
virgilp 6y ago
I get the feeling - moving in the opposite direction (from MPV to an estate/ V60), it's definitely more difficult to get in & out. That said - the better view might be a bit misleading, a high position makes you more susceptible to look closer, which is maybe ok at very low city speeds but not great at highway speeds). That said, it doesn't explain why MPVs all but disappeared (have been almost completely replaced by SUVs).

by roel_v 6y ago

danieldk 6y ago

Not intended in a nasty way, just factual: The only reason I drive it is because it's so comfortable to sit higher up, and to have a better view of the road that way. And thereby blocking the view of 'regular' cars.

roel_v 6y ago
Only to a degree I think - when you're sitting in a lower car, you can't view over other cars anyway. I guess you can see through other cars' windows, which is harder when the other cars are higher, like for me when I'm between several trucks. I don't recall that as being a 'problem' as such from when I drove a lower car. Maybe other people experience it differently.
- maccard 6y ago
  Any junction where there's a lane on your outside, a person in a "normal" sized car is unable to see through into the junction. For some reason, all of the traffic lights installed in my city now don't have a set of lights at the far side of the junction visible, so there is a fairly large window where you can be stuck with no visibility of the traffic lights in 2 lanes of traffic if you might have a filter light. There's also rear view mirrors (big vehicle takes up more of my window, so I can't see if there's a bike coming)
- holstvoogd 6y ago
  Main issue I always had with SUVs is the lights. They all have way to bright xenon lights. When you drive a sports car (I drove a fiat coupe & a mx-5/Miata) in the dark you cannot see anything when a SUV is behind you. Not to speak of opposing(?) traffic on smaller roads. I almost died several times ;) Very happy to no longer have a car.
saiya-jin 6y ago
This is argument of people that don't know how to drive well & safely. Maybe not tailgating every other car and just keeping the safe distance would be enough? It definitely is for me and my car is lower than average sedan.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  It goes both ways. If the person in front of you isn't driving like such an jerk that you need to be looking around them to predict their moves or to find a passing opportunity it's not really a big deal.
afiori 6y ago
In terms of perspective a raised POV can generally help with visibility, independetly to how tall other cars are. Or even how tall the windscreen is can be a significant factor, in my car it is so short that the rearview mirror covers a significant part of the street.
tonyedgecombe 6y ago
And thereby blocking the view of 'regular' cars. And small children.
dzhiurgis 6y ago
How about trucks, buses, semis, delivery trucks and all other machinery?

DoingIsLearning 6y ago

I can definitely see why people like them and thanks for being transparent about it rather than try to justify it with secondary reasons. My only suggestion is irrespective of the environmental aspect is, do check the performance of your next SUV with regards to "Pedestrian Safety" crash tests (Also standardized by Euro NCAP). Specially when you mentioned city center, and The Netherlands. The difference between a regular sedan and an SUV could be the difference between a kid with fractured legs or the weight of forever taking someone's life.

Acinyx 6y ago
I kind of wonder if what we Europeans call SUVs is really what a lot of thew people in these threads think about. For example, I am going to buy a new car in the next 2 years, so looking a bit, and two cars I might be choosing behind would be the: Peugeot 3008/5008, seen as a SUV in the Netherlands: 67% Pedestrian Euro NCAP score: https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/peugeot/3008/5008/26581 https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/peugeot/3008/5008/26581 Peugeot 208, smaller car, same brand, same year: 56% https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/peugeot/208/38543 https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/peugeot/208/38543 Or the original posters BMW X3: 70% https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/bmw/x3-/-x4/33285 https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/bmw/x3-/-x4/33285 Otoh, the BMW 3 series: 87% https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/bmw/3-series/38531 https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/bmw/3-series/38531 Full electric BMW i3: 57% https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/bmw/i3/8863 https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/bmw/i3/8863 So what I am trying to say is: yes, "SUV" in general are likely to be worse for pedestrians, but there is so much variability, that "picking a SUV" doesn't mean much about safety.
- DoingIsLearning 6y ago
  I understand the concern but it is not based on comparable data. A few things to take into account: - The 67℅ in the test in 2016 for the Peugeot 3008 is based on a Pedestrian Impact performance. - The 56% of the test in 2019 for Peugeot 208 is based on a Pedestrian Impact Performance _and_ ADAS pedestrian detection +Automatic Emergency Braking (AEB) performance An important point with Euro NCAP is that typically the tests are always getting harder year on year to account for the expected technological development. Such that the same car would progressively score less if it were to repeat the Euro NCAP test year on year. I hope this helps your concern. In 'standard height' cars the first impact is usually on lower limbs or torso and secondary trauma to the head will happen on the bonnet or windshield. In SUV's, pedestrian and cyclists are much likely to suffer head trauma on first impact. My point is, in the horrific scenario that this should happens the survival rate will always be higher for non-SUV vehicles (ideally with longer bonnets and pedestrian friendly deformable structures).

virgilp 6y ago

I get the feeling - moving in the opposite direction (from MPV to an estate/ V60), it's definitely more difficult to get in & out. That said - the better view might be a bit misleading, a high position makes you more susceptible to look closer, which is maybe ok at very low city speeds but not great at highway speeds). That said, it doesn't explain why MPVs all but disappeared (have been almost completely replaced by SUVs).