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Yes, this is important. As soon as you start counting hybrids the statistics become somewhat meaningless, not all hybrids are created equal. Some almost seem to
by paol 6y ago
Yes, this is important. As soon as you start counting hybrids the statistics become somewhat meaningless, not all hybrids are created equal. Some almost seem to just amount to greenwashing, but maybe I'm just cynical.
- cjrp 6y agoSome aren't even about greenwashing, they're actually about increasing performance; I'd say that's worse from an environmental point of view.
- quotemstr 6y agoWhy do you think that increasing performance in itself bad for the environment?
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- cjrp 6y agoNot so much increasing performance, but what's required for that, e.g. the extra weight of the battery and motors to provide ~10km of electric-only range on the McLaren P1.
- crispyporkbites 6y agoFaster you go the more fuel you burn per mile above around 50-60mph depending on the car The faster you accelerate the more you’re going to braking to slow back down again (unless you’re accelerating onto open roads) Performance cars are more likely to be driven by people who don’t care about the environment and drive as such. Tires wear out faster ...
- kortilla 6y ago> Performance cars are more likely to be driven by people who don’t care about the environment and drive as such. I think the success of Tesla says otherwise. There are lots of us who enjoy performance cars who care about emissions. Even someone who drives an Audi v8 car is doing less damage than the single person cruising in a huge truck/suv.
- crispyporkbites 6y agoIt’s relative- the high performance Tesla’s are worse for the environment than the low performance ones. EVs are a different category to ICE cars so comparing across them is strange
- r00fus 6y agoThis is quite silly - a Tesla X or e-Hummer are still better for the environment than any ICE car.
- samoa42 6y agoi doubt that very much
- markvdb 6y agoThat probably holds true in case they have the same usage patterns. Does your theory still hold if I drive only 2000km/year in an older car versus a Tesla X or e-Hummer? I don't pretend to have the answer to that question, but there is an environmental cost to producing a car too...
- throwaway0a5e 6y agoMost people buying new vehicles have to (well they don't have to but it's the reasonable thing to do) consult their spouse. This is why certain outlier models are so popular. They facilitate "everyone wins" compromises. One person wants a practical crossover because that's what is most practical for the situation. The other wants a fun convertible. They buy a 4dr Wrangler because it's both. Everyone goes home happy. Same thing happens with Tesla. One person wants to buy a fuel sipping subcompact because that's what makes practical sense for the situation. The other wants a high performance sedan. Tesla checks both boxes so that's what they get. Everyone goes home happy. Edit: I know you all are recoiling in horror at the thought of having to run your car purchasing decisions by the other decision maker in your household but if you're gonna click the WrongThink(TM) button why don't you at least humor me and tell me why I'm so wrong.
- kortilla 6y agoIf it’s just a way to gain the ability to consume even more energy per launch from a stop light, it’s bad. And when most ICE setups (including hybrids that use electric to boost ICE peak output) talk about increasing performance, it’s about acceleration, not efficiency.
- leipert 6y agoBecause we don’t need to increase performance, if we think if performance as horse powers and speed. Cars are fast enough, even too fast for private vehicles. Living in Germany it is quite ridiculous that we don’t have speed limits on certain parts of the Autobahn, nobody needs to drive 200 km/h. You won’t get faster from A to B, it’s dangerous, it’s stressful, you need more energy. If you want to race, go on a race track. I assume it even costs us more to maintain roads so that you are able to drive more than 140 km/h.
- pritovido 6y agoThe great thing about Autobahns is freedom. If I travel in Spain, the speed limit is 120km/h. Now they have removed the 20 kms/h extra you could do for overtaking other cars. It is ludicrous. Everybody goes over the limit, and hence everybody goes against the law, and everybody could be fined with 300 euros, like my father 1 month ago. In cities, they are putting limits under 30km/h. Politicians love the fines because it is an extra tax of an extra billion euros nobody controls.
- usrusr 6y agoThe great thing isn't freedom, it's that the huge speed differences between cars help a lot with keeping drivers focused. People drive instead of just waiting out the time until their exit pops up on the nav. This effect has quite a bit of inertia so that even the speed-limited parts benefit from it so that a blanket speed limit would likely make the already limited sections less safe, after adapting to the relative ease of blanket speed limits. Chances are that overall safety would still increase, but I'm not sure of that (short term it would definitely increase, but that effect could quickly erode as people get used to it).
- crispyporkbites 6y agoReducing the speed limit saves lives and reduces overall traffic as people switch to alternative modes of transport. Do you object to seatbelt laws under the premise of "Freedom"? What about car safety standards? Isn't it more "Free" if we can make whatever car I want and sell it to whomever wants to buy it, even if it kills millions every year? The truth is that we need to look at improving society holistically, which means implementing and designing society in a way that benefits humankind over the long term. Civilization isn't very "Free" but it's a trade off we make to live in a fair and progressive society, and allows us to combat things like covid, natural disasters, growing populations and other challenges that face the human race.
- corty 6y agoThe usual argument basically boils down to "gluttony and pride are deadly sins". You shall only consume/have/want the necessary minimum, any more is morally suspect, even absent objectively apparent problems.
- quotemstr 6y ago"The puritan hated bear baiting, not because it gave pain to the bear, but because it gave pleasure to the spectators"
- quotemstr 6y agoIt's kind of funny how comments like this get downvoted into oblivion. Too many ideologically-motivated HN users have access to the downvote button and they use it to suppress anything that threatens certain sacred narratives. This place is a lot less open to intellectual curiosity than it says on the tin.
- Swizec 6y agoThere was a fun segment on this in an old Top Gear. A race to see how far you can get on a single tank of gas. Clarkson thought the challenge was dumb and picked a big comfy car with a massive engine. He might not win but at least he’s gonna enjoy himself. Ended up winning. The massively overpowered engine was chilling at highway speeds so much it barely used any gas. Another fun comparison was when they took a Prius and a M5. When the M5 was chilling at a slightly fun speed, the Prius was struggling so hard that it had double the fuel consumption of the M5. Cruising speed matters.
- crispyporkbites 6y agoI wouldn’t take environmental advice from top gear. I seriously doubt the accuracy of this
- throwaway0a5e 6y agoI agree. It's automotive themed entertainment. While not totally scripted they have a plot picked out. But you're among an online community that thinks the Hilux episode was a scientifically controlled experiment so that's gonna be an uphill battle.
- dagw 6y agoThe original poster is slightly mis-remembering the episodes in question. In the first scenario much of it was down to the big car having a really big gas tank and thus going further on a single tank of gas than the smaller, more economical, cars. In the second case they where driving the Prius around a race track as fast as they could make it go (ie nothing like cruising on normal roads) while with the M5 following at the same pace. And in those conditions the M5 did use less gas, but I don't recall it being half as much.
- usrusr 6y agoDid the M5 happen to follow in the slipstream? That basically nullifies energy demand at high speed...
- r00fus 6y agoFull EVs are always more performant so if it’s for performance then it’s fine the petrol cars will eventually lose out.