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I can only speak for myself. I have a second home in a remote area with a very bad gravel road. In winter, when there is snow, I was frequently unable to get th

I can only speak for myself. I have a second home in a remote area with a very bad gravel road. In winter, when there is snow, I was frequently unable to get there. Then I bought a SUV. It's a 4WD with and ample trunk. Now I can use my property to my liking according to my job time constraints rather then weather conditions. But I sense your sub-sonic tone. I think the vast majority of SUV owners lives in a city with perfect snow removal in winter (if there even is snow at all) which hardly justifies owning such an ineffective car.

scoot 6y ago
So your justification for owning an inefficient car is that you have a second home? I don't even know where to start with that.
- MrBuddyCasino 6y ago
  He gave a practical reason. Take a second to introspect if your moral outrage might be envy in disguise. It is very easy to rationalize these things and dress them up nicer than they really are.
  - scoot 6y ago
    Sorry, but no. There's no practical reason to own two homes.
- abdulmuhaimin 6y ago
  ...with a very bad gravel road second or first or gazilionth home doesnt even matter.
  - scoot 6y ago
    > second or first or gazilionth home doesnt even matter Let's try scaling that to everyone on the planet, shall we?
- tomp 6y ago
  People like you are the reason why "green" & "sustainability" get a bad rep. "Why even enjoy anything? Why even drive? Why even go on vacations? Why even eat meat? Why even have kids? Why even socialize? Why even live outside of the matrix instead of having all your entertainment & nutrients delivered directly to your brain/veins? Why even live?" inb4 "no arguments": parent post isn't very heavy on arguments either, it's basically just passive-aggressive moralizing.
  - MrBuddyCasino 6y ago
    > live in the pod, eat the bugs I didn't get it until recently, and this is exactly it.
    - scoot 6y ago
      How about living in just one home, not two? No "pods" or bugs required.
  - scoot 6y ago
    > "People like you" So, generalizing your moral outrage with a passive aggressive personal attack? You win.
    - tomp 6y ago
      Yeah, I agree. But on the other hand, if someone is even willing to make an argument like this, that does tell you something about their personality...
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - scoot 6y ago
        > "I was wrong, but..." Just leaving this here. It needs no further explanation.
- serial_dev 6y ago
  Why would you even start anywhere? You don't need to start anything. If someone wants to drive an inefficient car, let them enjoy it, or push for legislations that tax those cars, you are being judgmental without affecting real change.
  - scoot 6y ago
    > If someone wants to drive an inefficient car, let them I don't believe I've stopped them. (If only it were that easy!) No, it's a fair response to the the laiz a fair comment "in order to consume more than is morally acceptable (a second home, especially when others have none, but regardless), I need to drive an environmentally unfriendly car".
romanoderoma 6y ago
Until 10 years ago me and other 3 friends used to go snowboarding weekly, we live in Rome and the nearest ski stations are in Abruzzo, about an hour away in the central Italian Appenines. One of the places we went more often is called Campo Felice, which is famous for its extreme weather conditions. Sudden snowfalls are pretty common and they can be very heavy. But the main danger are temperature drops, sometimes temperature can go as low as -33 C, forming thick layers of ice on the roads. We got stuck there a few times because either the car doors were completely frozen and would not open or it was too cold and the engine refused to start, not mentioning the suboptimal traction of our 2WD cars. To solve the problem we put some money together and bought a used Fiat Panda 4x4 (https://i.pinimg.com/564x/b4/d6/dd/b4d6dd1544d24d3c8d73dadda8f95599.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/564x/b4/d6/dd/b4d6dd1544d24d3c8d73dadda...), it's an affordable 4WD with many features that rival with much more expensive cars (excluding of course the luxury stuff). We never had a problem after. The new model costs only ~16 thousand euros and it improves a lot over the old one which was admitedly quite spartan, but for me it was a feature not a bug.
maccard 6y ago
Not commenting on the other parts of your post like others have, but > Then I bought a SUV. It's a 4WD <...> SUV doesn't imply 4WD. Most 4WD are SUVs, but lets not pretend that most SUVs are 4WD, or anything close to it. Most people buying Qashqai's or RR Evoque's aren't buying the 4WD models.
lazyjones 6y ago
Perfect snow removal in winter in large cities means that your car will be sitting next to to a mountain of snow between it and the road if you park next to the sidewalk overnight. 4WD wins big time there.

scoot 6y ago

So your justification for owning an inefficient car is that you have a second home? I don't even know where to start with that.

MrBuddyCasino 6y ago
He gave a practical reason. Take a second to introspect if your moral outrage might be envy in disguise. It is very easy to rationalize these things and dress them up nicer than they really are.
- scoot 6y ago
  Sorry, but no. There's no practical reason to own two homes.
abdulmuhaimin 6y ago
...with a very bad gravel road second or first or gazilionth home doesnt even matter.
- scoot 6y ago
  > second or first or gazilionth home doesnt even matter Let's try scaling that to everyone on the planet, shall we?
tomp 6y ago
People like you are the reason why "green" & "sustainability" get a bad rep. "Why even enjoy anything? Why even drive? Why even go on vacations? Why even eat meat? Why even have kids? Why even socialize? Why even live outside of the matrix instead of having all your entertainment & nutrients delivered directly to your brain/veins? Why even live?" inb4 "no arguments": parent post isn't very heavy on arguments either, it's basically just passive-aggressive moralizing.
- MrBuddyCasino 6y ago
  > live in the pod, eat the bugs I didn't get it until recently, and this is exactly it.
  - scoot 6y ago
    How about living in just one home, not two? No "pods" or bugs required.
- scoot 6y ago
  > "People like you" So, generalizing your moral outrage with a passive aggressive personal attack? You win.
  - tomp 6y ago
    Yeah, I agree. But on the other hand, if someone is even willing to make an argument like this, that does tell you something about their personality...
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - scoot 6y ago
      > "I was wrong, but..." Just leaving this here. It needs no further explanation.
serial_dev 6y ago
Why would you even start anywhere? You don't need to start anything. If someone wants to drive an inefficient car, let them enjoy it, or push for legislations that tax those cars, you are being judgmental without affecting real change.
- scoot 6y ago
  > If someone wants to drive an inefficient car, let them I don't believe I've stopped them. (If only it were that easy!) No, it's a fair response to the the laiz a fair comment "in order to consume more than is morally acceptable (a second home, especially when others have none, but regardless), I need to drive an environmentally unfriendly car".

romanoderoma 6y ago

Until 10 years ago me and other 3 friends used to go snowboarding weekly, we live in Rome and the nearest ski stations are in Abruzzo, about an hour away in the central Italian Appenines. One of the places we went more often is called Campo Felice, which is famous for its extreme weather conditions. Sudden snowfalls are pretty common and they can be very heavy. But the main danger are temperature drops, sometimes temperature can go as low as -33 C, forming thick layers of ice on the roads. We got stuck there a few times because either the car doors were completely frozen and would not open or it was too cold and the engine refused to start, not mentioning the suboptimal traction of our 2WD cars. To solve the problem we put some money together and bought a used Fiat Panda 4x4 (https://i.pinimg.com/564x/b4/d6/dd/b4d6dd1544d24d3c8d73dadda8f95599.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/564x/b4/d6/dd/b4d6dd1544d24d3c8d73dadda...), it's an affordable 4WD with many features that rival with much more expensive cars (excluding of course the luxury stuff). We never had a problem after. The new model costs only ~16 thousand euros and it improves a lot over the old one which was admitedly quite spartan, but for me it was a feature not a bug.

maccard 6y ago

Not commenting on the other parts of your post like others have, but > Then I bought a SUV. It's a 4WD <...> SUV doesn't imply 4WD. Most 4WD are SUVs, but lets not pretend that most SUVs are 4WD, or anything close to it. Most people buying Qashqai's or RR Evoque's aren't buying the 4WD models.

lazyjones 6y ago

Perfect snow removal in winter in large cities means that your car will be sitting next to to a mountain of snow between it and the road if you park next to the sidewalk overnight. 4WD wins big time there.