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Here's another perspective - The ipad in my developer eyes is a powerful computer. It can do much more than just people use it mostly for - reading books and ga

by neya 6y ago

Here's another perspective - The ipad in my developer eyes is a powerful computer. It can do much more than just people use it mostly for - reading books and gaming. In fact, I'm using an iPad air right now and feel held back by the limitations of iOS imposed on me as a developer. I can't write code on an iPad (reliably). The machine itself is capable, so is the OS, but the narrow use cases Apple wants to portray it for gets in my way. In fact, I was so frustrated, I was even looking at some alternatives. The only thing that gets closest to what I want is a Surface Go - a full fledged windows computer that can literally do everything I want (SSH, Coding, etc) I would switch instantly in a heart beat. But, the longer term consequences of an ecosystem switch pull me back. I'm invested in the Apple ecosystem heavily at this point and would much rather have something from Apple that also covers developers' use cases. I'm sure even Apple employees doing programming would like to see something like that. But, Apple needs to listen to make it happen. And they don't. Hence, such posts. At least, that's what I can infer. P.S - I'm far from an Apple "fanboy". I'm a developer first and use whatever helps me achieve my end goal.

ghaff 6y ago
I actually get the desire for convergence between the tablet and laptop. After all, the hardware is basically capable of both roles, potentially ergonomics aside (I haven't encountered a removeable keyboard that really works like a laptop does which I often use on my lap). At the same time, it may be worth observing that tablets took off when Apple basically threw out laptop compatibility and made tablets their own (well, phone-related) thing. So convergence would be interesting but I don't want them to de-optimize either the tablet or the laptop to do so. (Though I expect they'll get there at some point and have no doubt they're experimenting internally.)
- thesuperbigfrog 6y ago
  >> I actually get the desire for convergence between the tablet and laptop. After all, the hardware is basically capable of both roles, potentially ergonomics aside. This is why there are "two-in-one" laptops that have fully functional touchscreens that convert to tablet mode for both Windows and Chromebook operating systems. >> Apple basically threw out laptop compatibility and made tablets their own (well, phone-related) thing. Thus this article begging Apple to reconsider. Wouldn't it be awesome if the M1 Macbook Air had a fully functional tablet mode that let it act as an iPad Pro? :) For whatever reason Apple does not think so. :(
  - Closi 6y ago
    > For whatever reason Apple does not think so. :( I think it's coming... I assume it's more of a software challenge than a hardware challenge (i.e. the convergence of iOS and MacOS without it going the way of Windows Tablet Edition).
- Closi 6y ago
  > I haven't encountered a removeable keyboard that really works like a laptop does which I often use on my lap The magic keyboard works really well for this. It’s not perfect, but it’s so close that I can forgive the flaws.
Causality1 6y ago
Exactly. There's always a layer of apprehension when buying an accessory device because you know it will always be beholden to either your other computer or some third party service for certain functions. If I needed to, I could use a Surface or even one of the old Bay Trail windows tablets to cut together and burn a DVD for one of my technically-inept relatives. Ipads can't. They couldn't even access generic flash drives until last year. Any device that can't make its own reinstallation media feels like using a house of cards.
mojzu 6y ago
For programming I keep meaning to get around to testing code server. It would require using another computer or server to actually run it, but since vscode is essentially a browser app anyway I think there’s a decent chance it might be usable for the few times I’ll want it (wanting to work somewhere other than my desk once in a while). The iPad Air already does everything I bought it for so it’s not a major sticking point for me, but it would be interesting to see what the hardware was actually capable of as I think my use cases (reading, video, drawing/notes, midi, teams/other chat) are barely pushing it. However I think it would require Apple to open up the iOS ecosystem, which they seem pretty hell bent on not doing (for some reasons I agree with and a lot I don’t).
ysavir 6y ago
This isn't "another perspective". It's the exact perspective the GP is addressing. You're looking at the iPad product family and saying "I want to use this for things other than the intended purposes." Yes, the hardware is there. But that's not relevant. Apple wanted a product that provides users with a mobile display--that's all iPads really are. > In fact, I'm using an iPad air right now and feel held back by the limitations of iOS imposed on me as a developer. There are no limitations imposed on you "as a developer". Apple didn't build a full-featured computer in iPad form and then said "Okay, now let's remove functionality to make it harder to code". Apple defined the needs of the product--a big screen and an easy touch-based interface--and built it. Sure, the hardware might able to do more, but it was never the intention for it to do more. It does exactly what it was designed to do. The only limit imposed on you is the tools you're allowing yourself to use.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- ghaff 6y ago
  >Apple wanted a product that provides users with a mobile display--that's all iPads really are. Or that they can interface with primarily with touch/a pencil. The iPad arguably started out as you described (plus some gaming). But it definitely can be used by creatives who don't primarily input using a keyboard. (And I know writers who use iPads on the go; I've never been able to make it work for me that way.)
  - ysavir 6y ago
    > But it definitely can be used by creatives who don't primarily input using a keyboard. (And I know writers who use iPads on the go; I've never been able to make it work for me that way.) It can be used by them, sure. But the matter is whether they are the intended audience, and whether their needs are a target for the iPad teams at Apple. For a comparison, I can use my typical-sized Nikon camera to record videos, but I shouldn't expect Nikon to make a headband mount for it so I can record while I'm biking. I'd buy a GoPro for that. And similarly, I won't expect GoPro to include the same levels of customization and settings as a traditional camera.

by neya 6y ago

ghaff 6y ago

I actually get the desire for convergence between the tablet and laptop. After all, the hardware is basically capable of both roles, potentially ergonomics aside (I haven't encountered a removeable keyboard that really works like a laptop does which I often use on my lap). At the same time, it may be worth observing that tablets took off when Apple basically threw out laptop compatibility and made tablets their own (well, phone-related) thing. So convergence would be interesting but I don't want them to de-optimize either the tablet or the laptop to do so. (Though I expect they'll get there at some point and have no doubt they're experimenting internally.)

thesuperbigfrog 6y ago
>> I actually get the desire for convergence between the tablet and laptop. After all, the hardware is basically capable of both roles, potentially ergonomics aside. This is why there are "two-in-one" laptops that have fully functional touchscreens that convert to tablet mode for both Windows and Chromebook operating systems. >> Apple basically threw out laptop compatibility and made tablets their own (well, phone-related) thing. Thus this article begging Apple to reconsider. Wouldn't it be awesome if the M1 Macbook Air had a fully functional tablet mode that let it act as an iPad Pro? :) For whatever reason Apple does not think so. :(
- Closi 6y ago
  > For whatever reason Apple does not think so. :( I think it's coming... I assume it's more of a software challenge than a hardware challenge (i.e. the convergence of iOS and MacOS without it going the way of Windows Tablet Edition).
Closi 6y ago
> I haven't encountered a removeable keyboard that really works like a laptop does which I often use on my lap The magic keyboard works really well for this. It’s not perfect, but it’s so close that I can forgive the flaws.

Causality1 6y ago

Exactly. There's always a layer of apprehension when buying an accessory device because you know it will always be beholden to either your other computer or some third party service for certain functions. If I needed to, I could use a Surface or even one of the old Bay Trail windows tablets to cut together and burn a DVD for one of my technically-inept relatives. Ipads can't. They couldn't even access generic flash drives until last year. Any device that can't make its own reinstallation media feels like using a house of cards.

mojzu 6y ago

For programming I keep meaning to get around to testing code server. It would require using another computer or server to actually run it, but since vscode is essentially a browser app anyway I think there’s a decent chance it might be usable for the few times I’ll want it (wanting to work somewhere other than my desk once in a while). The iPad Air already does everything I bought it for so it’s not a major sticking point for me, but it would be interesting to see what the hardware was actually capable of as I think my use cases (reading, video, drawing/notes, midi, teams/other chat) are barely pushing it. However I think it would require Apple to open up the iOS ecosystem, which they seem pretty hell bent on not doing (for some reasons I agree with and a lot I don’t).

ysavir 6y ago

This isn't "another perspective". It's the exact perspective the GP is addressing. You're looking at the iPad product family and saying "I want to use this for things other than the intended purposes." Yes, the hardware is there. But that's not relevant. Apple wanted a product that provides users with a mobile display--that's all iPads really are. > In fact, I'm using an iPad air right now and feel held back by the limitations of iOS imposed on me as a developer. There are no limitations imposed on you "as a developer". Apple didn't build a full-featured computer in iPad form and then said "Okay, now let's remove functionality to make it harder to code". Apple defined the needs of the product--a big screen and an easy touch-based interface--and built it. Sure, the hardware might able to do more, but it was never the intention for it to do more. It does exactly what it was designed to do. The only limit imposed on you is the tools you're allowing yourself to use.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ghaff 6y ago
>Apple wanted a product that provides users with a mobile display--that's all iPads really are. Or that they can interface with primarily with touch/a pencil. The iPad arguably started out as you described (plus some gaming). But it definitely can be used by creatives who don't primarily input using a keyboard. (And I know writers who use iPads on the go; I've never been able to make it work for me that way.)
- ysavir 6y ago
  > But it definitely can be used by creatives who don't primarily input using a keyboard. (And I know writers who use iPads on the go; I've never been able to make it work for me that way.) It can be used by them, sure. But the matter is whether they are the intended audience, and whether their needs are a target for the iPad teams at Apple. For a comparison, I can use my typical-sized Nikon camera to record videos, but I shouldn't expect Nikon to make a headband mount for it so I can record while I'm biking. I'd buy a GoPro for that. And similarly, I won't expect GoPro to include the same levels of customization and settings as a traditional camera.