4 ms·

IANAL. Statistics sound like a compilation of facts. Facts are not copyrightable by themselves. Compilations are, but compilation were not authored by players,

by exo762 6y ago

IANAL. Statistics sound like a compilation of facts. Facts are not copyrightable by themselves. Compilations are, but compilation were not authored by players, but by someone else. I really hope they will lose. Also, paywall.

throwaway2245 6y ago
I don't have access to the article but they'll surely be suing on GDPR grounds, for unpermissioned use of personal data, not the copyright (which, I agree, they probably won't hold). It's akin to an employer now tracking 24/7 whether you are sat at your home office desk (in my view: this shouldn't be allowed, with or without permission).
- bzb6 6y ago
  These are football players playing matches in public and the statistics are trivial I imagine, like how many passes they make and stuff like that, no? This seems like they just want free money and I hope they lose
  - Ekaros 6y ago
    I agree I also hope they lose Actually this sort of case could have quite far reaching implications. What other data would fall under similar protection? I can think of quite innocent use cases, like IMDB or other databases of who worked on artistic product like a book or game. If your name is in one, should you be paid? Where would this end?
  - throwaway2245 6y ago
    If it is statistics to a degree that can be used for hiring decisions or sold to competitors (or: for other people to make hundreds of millions from your work), is it trivial?
  - garybake 6y ago
    Like in moneyball. It could have a bearing on players wages, sponsorship etc. I hope too hope they loose though.
  - ryan_j_naughton 6y ago
    If they win, instead the firms could simply give them the rights to remove their data, which honestly none of them would exercise. Not being in the professional sports statistics databases is worse, even for poorly performing players, as it implies that aren't famous or noteworthy enough to be included. Under GDPR a person doesn't get to cherry pick which data to delete right? Either you request all your data to be deleted by a firm or you don't, right? GDPR clearly needs an exemption for anything that is already publicly available data.
  - iguy 6y ago
    The articles don't make it very clear what sort of statistics are involved. Are they talking about simple things anyone could scribble down while watching TV, like it's 1980? I thought that, for many sports, they now collected much more. Like where every player's feet were, to the cm, in every frame, that sort of level. Would this change any arguments?
  - renewiltord 6y ago
    Sure and when you drive your car in public, it's trivial for me to place cameras around the city and track your plate for movement data. You think I should be able to sell that? Personal data doesn't just stop being personal data because it's someone else's.
    - merrywhether 6y ago
      IANAL, but I recall the phrase “reasonable expectation of privacy” coming up in these kinds of situations. I’m really not sure how performing public entertainment exhibitions overlaps with that, whereas driving to work and such is an activity that merely takes place in public but is not performed for the public.
  - zimpenfish 6y ago
    > the statistics are trivial I imagine, like how many passes they make If it's Opta, they record a whole bunch of stats for every player in every game in the top 4 (I think) leagues - distance run, passes attempted, passes completed, whether shots were on target, etc. Even providing "how good was the shot?" metrics - https://www.optasports.com/services/analytics/advanced-metrics/ https://www.optasports.com/services/analytics/advanced-metri... Huge investment in tech and people. Definitely not "trivial".
pmoriarty 6y ago
Where you were last Friday night is also a fact, and even if you were somewhere in public most people would consider that personal information. Same with your age, your gender, your height and weight, your address, your phone number, where you work, etc. All could be either measured in public or are likely to already be in a public database somewhere. Yet most would consider those to be personal information. That information might not be private, but that doesn't make it any less personal.

by exo762 6y ago

throwaway2245 6y ago

I don't have access to the article but they'll surely be suing on GDPR grounds, for unpermissioned use of personal data, not the copyright (which, I agree, they probably won't hold). It's akin to an employer now tracking 24/7 whether you are sat at your home office desk (in my view: this shouldn't be allowed, with or without permission).

bzb6 6y ago
These are football players playing matches in public and the statistics are trivial I imagine, like how many passes they make and stuff like that, no? This seems like they just want free money and I hope they lose
- Ekaros 6y ago
  I agree I also hope they lose Actually this sort of case could have quite far reaching implications. What other data would fall under similar protection? I can think of quite innocent use cases, like IMDB or other databases of who worked on artistic product like a book or game. If your name is in one, should you be paid? Where would this end?
- throwaway2245 6y ago
  If it is statistics to a degree that can be used for hiring decisions or sold to competitors (or: for other people to make hundreds of millions from your work), is it trivial?
- garybake 6y ago
  Like in moneyball. It could have a bearing on players wages, sponsorship etc. I hope too hope they loose though.
- ryan_j_naughton 6y ago
  If they win, instead the firms could simply give them the rights to remove their data, which honestly none of them would exercise. Not being in the professional sports statistics databases is worse, even for poorly performing players, as it implies that aren't famous or noteworthy enough to be included. Under GDPR a person doesn't get to cherry pick which data to delete right? Either you request all your data to be deleted by a firm or you don't, right? GDPR clearly needs an exemption for anything that is already publicly available data.
- iguy 6y ago
  The articles don't make it very clear what sort of statistics are involved. Are they talking about simple things anyone could scribble down while watching TV, like it's 1980? I thought that, for many sports, they now collected much more. Like where every player's feet were, to the cm, in every frame, that sort of level. Would this change any arguments?
- renewiltord 6y ago
  Sure and when you drive your car in public, it's trivial for me to place cameras around the city and track your plate for movement data. You think I should be able to sell that? Personal data doesn't just stop being personal data because it's someone else's.
  - merrywhether 6y ago
    IANAL, but I recall the phrase “reasonable expectation of privacy” coming up in these kinds of situations. I’m really not sure how performing public entertainment exhibitions overlaps with that, whereas driving to work and such is an activity that merely takes place in public but is not performed for the public.
- zimpenfish 6y ago
  > the statistics are trivial I imagine, like how many passes they make If it's Opta, they record a whole bunch of stats for every player in every game in the top 4 (I think) leagues - distance run, passes attempted, passes completed, whether shots were on target, etc. Even providing "how good was the shot?" metrics - https://www.optasports.com/services/analytics/advanced-metrics/ https://www.optasports.com/services/analytics/advanced-metri... Huge investment in tech and people. Definitely not "trivial".

pmoriarty 6y ago

Where you were last Friday night is also a fact, and even if you were somewhere in public most people would consider that personal information. Same with your age, your gender, your height and weight, your address, your phone number, where you work, etc. All could be either measured in public or are likely to already be in a public database somewhere. Yet most would consider those to be personal information. That information might not be private, but that doesn't make it any less personal.