4 ms·

Unless you are already quite rich, you just are a a bike accident or diagnosis away from bankruptcy, a life of financial stress and misery and even death in the

Unless you are already quite rich, you just are a a bike accident or diagnosis away from bankruptcy, a life of financial stress and misery and even death in the US. It's terrifying. I'm an American who has been living in Norway for 8.5 years now. I am never moving back, unless there are some serious system changes which will realistically not happen in my lifetime.

johnjungles 6y ago
Curious, what’s better? Also do you have similar levels of job opportunities as NY or SF?
- throwawayffffas 6y ago
  Better, is your insurance actually paying, without trying to weasel out of it. Also better, is not being charged almost half the median annual income for stitches.
- lm28469 6y ago
  Living in NY or SF only affects a small subset of Americans. Getting universal health care affects almost 100% of people living in Norway. There are good job opportunities pretty much anywhere when you're in tech, you don't nee to make SV money when you don't live in SV. > Curious, what’s better? Parental leaves, more vacations, less working hours per week, better life/work balance, free health and education, &c. People who never experienced both systems can't understand the impact it has on your life, I'm not talking going in vacation in EU/US, I'm talking working/living for extended period of times. You can't escape the matrix if you don't know you're in the matrix. The US is like Disneyland or Vegas, if you can afford the top level shit you'll have a good time, some would argue even a better time than anywhere else, if you're on a budget be prepared to be treated like cattle.
  - danielovichdk 6y ago
    As a native scandinavian I am happy for you. I really am. Good for you and your family.
  - bwc150 6y ago
    > if you can afford the top level shit you'll have a good time, some would argue even a better time than anywhere else This makes working hard/smartly in order to be able to do this incentivizing. Rather than just sitting back and enjoying the life/work balance and less working hours
    - lm28469 6y ago
      Yeah ok, but maybe, just maybe, accumulating wealth and gadgets isn't the be-all and end-all of life for everyone. If some people want to be in the rat race until 65 they're free to do so. I personally have better things to do with my limited time on this earth. > Rather than just sitting back and enjoying the life/work balance and less working hours What's wrong with enjoying life once your needs are met ? If I'm happy working 35 hours a week why would I work 42 hours a week ? If I don't want to buy the next new shinny toy why would I bust my ass for extra money that I won't need ?
- tephra 6y ago
  Not sure why you are getting downvoted for what seems like a generally curious question. I'll try and give some answer from the point of view of a Swede who is a serious "USPhile" in many ways (and someone who in his younger days wanted to move there). - Parental Leave: When I got my first child it's hard to understate how much being able to be off work for 8 months with ~80% of my full pay. I'm now going off for 6 months with my second child in February. And I can save up parental leave for a long time meaning I can take longer vacations to spend summers with them as well. - Healthcare: Again once you have experienced the true value of universal healthcare you will not want to go back. My second son go a bad infection and had to spend 2 weeks in the hospital with his mother. Cost (excluding what we paid in taxes of course...): 20-30 bucks for buying candy (i.e it could have been 0 ;)). - Education: All higher education is of course free for all EU citizens. It used to be free for everyone in the world but the unfortunately removed that a few years ago. - The everymans right: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam#Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam#Sweden There's of course a lot more one could point out (like for example high speed internet access pretty much everywhere, good mobile connection speed pretty much everywhere). Of course this comes with a cost of paying more in taxes (happy to do it!). I'm not the biggest fan of snow as well.
iamEAP 6y ago
Similar for me, but in Sweden and I'm only a couple months in. My ideal societal contract would be something like this: I want to be free to focus my energy on my work, relationship, and interests. I want the state to focus on programs that reduce the need for individuals like me to have to focus their energy on anything else. In practice, this is stuff like equal access to healthcare, education, childcare, social security, time-off... In the US, access to these things is not a given, and they often end up as rewards, distributed very unevenly. ...Even worse, this leads to anxiety/worry/focus by individuals like me to try and fix or mitigate those problems. As you mention, the scale of change in the way the US operates seems unlikely anytime soon; at least for me, removing myself (my skills/labor/knowledge) seems like as good a way as any to try and coerce change.
- bwc150 6y ago
  I enjoy there being an incentive for working hard and spending time and energy/focus on better access to time off, better childcare, etc
  - iamEAP 6y ago
    And I certainly still benefit from such incentives, even in the nordics (private health insurance, time off beyond the 25 days mandated by law, etc are still a thing in a competitive labor market here). I just see more benefit personally when a basic level of these things is offered to everyone. I don’t need the extra anxiety that my friend, bandmate, barista, or bartender is one crisis away from ruin.

johnjungles 6y ago

Curious, what’s better? Also do you have similar levels of job opportunities as NY or SF?

throwawayffffas 6y ago
Better, is your insurance actually paying, without trying to weasel out of it. Also better, is not being charged almost half the median annual income for stitches.
lm28469 6y ago
Living in NY or SF only affects a small subset of Americans. Getting universal health care affects almost 100% of people living in Norway. There are good job opportunities pretty much anywhere when you're in tech, you don't nee to make SV money when you don't live in SV. > Curious, what’s better? Parental leaves, more vacations, less working hours per week, better life/work balance, free health and education, &c. People who never experienced both systems can't understand the impact it has on your life, I'm not talking going in vacation in EU/US, I'm talking working/living for extended period of times. You can't escape the matrix if you don't know you're in the matrix. The US is like Disneyland or Vegas, if you can afford the top level shit you'll have a good time, some would argue even a better time than anywhere else, if you're on a budget be prepared to be treated like cattle.
- danielovichdk 6y ago
  As a native scandinavian I am happy for you. I really am. Good for you and your family.
- bwc150 6y ago
  > if you can afford the top level shit you'll have a good time, some would argue even a better time than anywhere else This makes working hard/smartly in order to be able to do this incentivizing. Rather than just sitting back and enjoying the life/work balance and less working hours
  - lm28469 6y ago
    Yeah ok, but maybe, just maybe, accumulating wealth and gadgets isn't the be-all and end-all of life for everyone. If some people want to be in the rat race until 65 they're free to do so. I personally have better things to do with my limited time on this earth. > Rather than just sitting back and enjoying the life/work balance and less working hours What's wrong with enjoying life once your needs are met ? If I'm happy working 35 hours a week why would I work 42 hours a week ? If I don't want to buy the next new shinny toy why would I bust my ass for extra money that I won't need ?
tephra 6y ago
Not sure why you are getting downvoted for what seems like a generally curious question. I'll try and give some answer from the point of view of a Swede who is a serious "USPhile" in many ways (and someone who in his younger days wanted to move there). - Parental Leave: When I got my first child it's hard to understate how much being able to be off work for 8 months with ~80% of my full pay. I'm now going off for 6 months with my second child in February. And I can save up parental leave for a long time meaning I can take longer vacations to spend summers with them as well. - Healthcare: Again once you have experienced the true value of universal healthcare you will not want to go back. My second son go a bad infection and had to spend 2 weeks in the hospital with his mother. Cost (excluding what we paid in taxes of course...): 20-30 bucks for buying candy (i.e it could have been 0 ;)). - Education: All higher education is of course free for all EU citizens. It used to be free for everyone in the world but the unfortunately removed that a few years ago. - The everymans right: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam#Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam#Sweden There's of course a lot more one could point out (like for example high speed internet access pretty much everywhere, good mobile connection speed pretty much everywhere). Of course this comes with a cost of paying more in taxes (happy to do it!). I'm not the biggest fan of snow as well.

iamEAP 6y ago

Similar for me, but in Sweden and I'm only a couple months in. My ideal societal contract would be something like this: I want to be free to focus my energy on my work, relationship, and interests. I want the state to focus on programs that reduce the need for individuals like me to have to focus their energy on anything else. In practice, this is stuff like equal access to healthcare, education, childcare, social security, time-off... In the US, access to these things is not a given, and they often end up as rewards, distributed very unevenly. ...Even worse, this leads to anxiety/worry/focus by individuals like me to try and fix or mitigate those problems. As you mention, the scale of change in the way the US operates seems unlikely anytime soon; at least for me, removing myself (my skills/labor/knowledge) seems like as good a way as any to try and coerce change.

bwc150 6y ago
I enjoy there being an incentive for working hard and spending time and energy/focus on better access to time off, better childcare, etc
- iamEAP 6y ago
  And I certainly still benefit from such incentives, even in the nordics (private health insurance, time off beyond the 25 days mandated by law, etc are still a thing in a competitive labor market here). I just see more benefit personally when a basic level of these things is offered to everyone. I don’t need the extra anxiety that my friend, bandmate, barista, or bartender is one crisis away from ruin.