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> Are they of Chinese descent? Extremely weird question. We live in a competitive global market, people can and will move countries for better opportunities.

> Are they of Chinese descent? Extremely weird question. We live in a competitive global market, people can and will move countries for better opportunities. USA used to just receive talent as it was way richer that any other country. That times are over now. I understand that it will take some time for Americans and many people in other for countries to accept this new reality, thou.

josefresco 6y ago
Instead of dismissing and criticizing the question, reply with data, references or even anecdotal experience.
StartupTree 6y ago
Humanity does do not live in your idealised competitive global market. There is a very limited subset of US engineers who would relocate to China.
- motoboi 6y ago
  And you are saying that based on which data?
  - kube-system 6y ago
    Expatriates represent less than 1% of people, and market analysts categorize movement between countries into “inbound countries” and “outbound countries”. https://www.finaccord.com/Home/About-Us/Press-Releases/Global-Expatriates-Size,-Segmentation-and-Forecas https://www.finaccord.com/Home/About-Us/Press-Releases/Globa...
- lnsru 6y ago
  I don’t know about USA, but many many Germans went there to work in rising automotive sector. The growth opportunities are insane while building future without internal combustion engines.
  - eastendguy 6y ago
    "many many"... I doubt that, but if so, that would be interesting reading. Do you have any numbers and examples? I know some of BMW's early electric car team went to China, after BMW stopped the development. But anyone else? Dictatorship aside, the problem with Chinese companies is the glass ceiling. It is pretty much impossible to make a career there as foreigner. Very much unlike the US and EU.
    - lnsru 6y ago
      No press source. Students from the same study year gladly stayed on China after some graduate programs. They weren’t Chinese. I don’t think they were the single ones. Who wants to sit in dying Europe? No innovation, no money for innovation. No will for it either. I am pretty sure, you have zero chance as foreigner to make great career in EU. Though EU is big and diverse. About USA I don’t know. First thing I see is a big problem with visa.
    - dragonelite 6y ago
      In the Asian community there's talk about a bamboo ceiling here in the west for people of east and south east Asian descent. Its the same everywhere minority will always have a ceiling or a stop on their ambitions. And off course there will always be exceptions everywhere.
- mytailorisrich 6y ago
  Western expats in China have been a thing for decades. Usually theses are internal transfers within the same (Western) company. But now with the growth of Chinese companies, this becomes an 'adventure' not so different than accepting a job abroad, wherever that might be.
- pjc50 6y ago
  The article mentions "China based employees [of existing EDA companies]", so by the sounds of it they found the limited set of people who've already relocated and made them a better (or non-refusable?) offer.
- patrec 6y ago
  China does not need random US engineers. It needs a comparatively small pool of people who have the specific know how that China currently lacks and it can probably afford to pay them some large multiple over the US market rate. Why would a massive career and financial boost not be enough to sway a significant fraction of people driven enough to become A-players in their field in the first place, especially if China is clever about how it rolls out the red carpet for them and their families?
nullifidian 6y ago
>as it was way richer that any other country. It was also (and arguably still is) way freer that any other country. In terms of freedom of religion, political, and economic freedoms. Its individualist culture is way more conducive to accepting differences, and being an immigrant nation from the start, making it your new home is much more natural. One country is liberal and democratic, the other one currently keeps an ethnic minority in reeducation camps, due to cultural non-conformance. In one country the current leader's power to change things has been significantly limited, while 90% of the mass media has been downright scornful about him, and the judiciary refusing to do everything he wants, in the other the leader can cancel IPOs, put CEOs in prison for decades for disrespect. I.e. your level of legal protection is not comparable between these two countries. So we are indeed in a global competitive job market, but not all presumed competitors are actually competitive.
- shripadk 6y ago
  I know you are getting downvoted and I know why! But everything you said is the truth. You have my upvote!
- zeusk 6y ago
  yeah but not free for immigration anymore; the whole process is so very dehumanizing.
- socialdemocrat 6y ago
  It is shocking that people still talk about America as this place with amazing freedom. That has simply not been true in a long time. Especially looking at the disaster that is American democracy today, it is hard to grasp how people can still cling to this idea. Among all developed countries I have visited and lived in America has always felt most like a police state to me. Cops are aggressive, overzealous and tend to show zero tolerance. In general anybody with some authority are kind of scary in the US. Just look at immigration in the US. You will be hard pressed to find immigration in other developed countries behaving in this manner. What I notice most interacting with American at authorities are all the threats. Pretty much any document you sign elaborate quite a lot on the dire consequences of filling it out wrong. And as one can see online and I have experience myself, the Us is a country in perpetual paranoia. Cops get called all the time for nothing. And they abide. There is not any issue small enough for them to not show up. And they are not nice. They act like police state police. You can look at videos online of police arrests and dealing with different situations. American police tend to escalate and be very brutal. Slamming people to the ground. Beating them up. Pointing guns and yelling. Handcuffing even small kids. A ridiculous practice seen from the perspective of other actually free countries. No, the US is an embarrassment to liberal democracy. It makes the rest of us living in democracies look bad.
chrisin2d 6y ago
There's more to life than money. The USA offers higher quality of life and has a cosmopolitan, multicultural society. I live in the Netherlands, where I enjoy an extremely high quality of life, get access to diverse cultural programs, and get to meet interesting individuals from every corner of the earth who have come to pursue art, technology, and science here. Dutch tech salaries aren't the highest, but I'm living a great life. Dutch and American societies are open-minded and immigrant-oriented: both readily and easily assimilate millions of immigrants. During uni, I did an exchange study in Beijing and Shanghai. I'm open to working a short gig in China, but I would never settle down there. Chinese cities have thin veneers of modernity and glitz, but they are polluted, offer poor quality of life, and—aside from small expat circles—are monocultural from a global viewpoint. I am thoroughly convinced that China lacks the West's ability to draw, retain, and assimilate foreign talent en masse.
- Hokusai 6y ago
  > There's more to life than money. I completely agree, that's why I emigrated to Sweden (not so different that the Netherlands) instead of the USA. But many people gives high value to money and high status. > China lacks the West's ability to draw, retain, and assimilate foreign talent en masse That is probably true for now. I have seen the USA loosing that appeal, China may gain it. Hong Kong is going to be a test bed on China capacity to keep foreigners in the country as the region is already diverse. China lacked the money to be multicultural, people was not willing to move to a poor country. That may change and Western democracies need to stop thinking that are the best in the world and work more to improve education, health care, inequality reduction and quality of life if we do not want to be surpassed in the future.
graeme 6y ago
People move to many countries but China is not one of them. Those of Chinese descent are the one exception in Chinese immigration. If non-Chinese started moving to China in large numbers this would be a notable change, and the OP’s question makes sense. “ In 2016, China issued 1,576 permanent residency cards. This was more than double what it had issued the previous year, but still roughly 750 times lower than the United States’ 1.2 million.[1]” “ The only significant immigration to China has been by the Overseas Chinese, who in the years since 1949 have been offered various enticements to return to their homeland. Several million may have done so since 1949. The largest influx came in 1978–79, when about 160,000 to 250,000 ethnic Chinese refugees fled Vietnam for southern China, as relations between the two countries worsened. Many of these refugees were settled in state farms on Hainan Island in the South China Sea.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_China
- tanilama 6y ago
  You don’t need a PR to move to China. PR is for immigration and China isn’t an immigrant country. I agree however not a lot westerner immigrated China in masses. I don’t think you would live a normal life there without knowing Chinese, it will be painful. The immigration policy is mostly nonexisten, which by itself says a lot about the government's attitude towards foreigners in general. On the other hand, China could be attractive place to gain experience with, it is vast complex and completely different from the West.
ioctrl 6y ago
About 14% of the US population (1 in 7 people) were born in another country. Compare this to 0.07% of the Chinese population. San Francisco is 34% foreign born, compared to 0.7% in Shanghai. China is not really in the conversation when it comes to foreign talent yet. But that could change over time.

josefresco 6y ago

Instead of dismissing and criticizing the question, reply with data, references or even anecdotal experience.

StartupTree 6y ago

Humanity does do not live in your idealised competitive global market. There is a very limited subset of US engineers who would relocate to China.

motoboi 6y ago
And you are saying that based on which data?
- kube-system 6y ago
  Expatriates represent less than 1% of people, and market analysts categorize movement between countries into “inbound countries” and “outbound countries”. https://www.finaccord.com/Home/About-Us/Press-Releases/Global-Expatriates-Size,-Segmentation-and-Forecas https://www.finaccord.com/Home/About-Us/Press-Releases/Globa...
lnsru 6y ago
I don’t know about USA, but many many Germans went there to work in rising automotive sector. The growth opportunities are insane while building future without internal combustion engines.
- eastendguy 6y ago
  "many many"... I doubt that, but if so, that would be interesting reading. Do you have any numbers and examples? I know some of BMW's early electric car team went to China, after BMW stopped the development. But anyone else? Dictatorship aside, the problem with Chinese companies is the glass ceiling. It is pretty much impossible to make a career there as foreigner. Very much unlike the US and EU.
  - lnsru 6y ago
    No press source. Students from the same study year gladly stayed on China after some graduate programs. They weren’t Chinese. I don’t think they were the single ones. Who wants to sit in dying Europe? No innovation, no money for innovation. No will for it either. I am pretty sure, you have zero chance as foreigner to make great career in EU. Though EU is big and diverse. About USA I don’t know. First thing I see is a big problem with visa.
  - dragonelite 6y ago
    In the Asian community there's talk about a bamboo ceiling here in the west for people of east and south east Asian descent. Its the same everywhere minority will always have a ceiling or a stop on their ambitions. And off course there will always be exceptions everywhere.
mytailorisrich 6y ago
Western expats in China have been a thing for decades. Usually theses are internal transfers within the same (Western) company. But now with the growth of Chinese companies, this becomes an 'adventure' not so different than accepting a job abroad, wherever that might be.
pjc50 6y ago
The article mentions "China based employees [of existing EDA companies]", so by the sounds of it they found the limited set of people who've already relocated and made them a better (or non-refusable?) offer.
patrec 6y ago
China does not need random US engineers. It needs a comparatively small pool of people who have the specific know how that China currently lacks and it can probably afford to pay them some large multiple over the US market rate. Why would a massive career and financial boost not be enough to sway a significant fraction of people driven enough to become A-players in their field in the first place, especially if China is clever about how it rolls out the red carpet for them and their families?

nullifidian 6y ago

>as it was way richer that any other country. It was also (and arguably still is) way freer that any other country. In terms of freedom of religion, political, and economic freedoms. Its individualist culture is way more conducive to accepting differences, and being an immigrant nation from the start, making it your new home is much more natural. One country is liberal and democratic, the other one currently keeps an ethnic minority in reeducation camps, due to cultural non-conformance. In one country the current leader's power to change things has been significantly limited, while 90% of the mass media has been downright scornful about him, and the judiciary refusing to do everything he wants, in the other the leader can cancel IPOs, put CEOs in prison for decades for disrespect. I.e. your level of legal protection is not comparable between these two countries. So we are indeed in a global competitive job market, but not all presumed competitors are actually competitive.

shripadk 6y ago
I know you are getting downvoted and I know why! But everything you said is the truth. You have my upvote!
zeusk 6y ago
yeah but not free for immigration anymore; the whole process is so very dehumanizing.
socialdemocrat 6y ago
It is shocking that people still talk about America as this place with amazing freedom. That has simply not been true in a long time. Especially looking at the disaster that is American democracy today, it is hard to grasp how people can still cling to this idea. Among all developed countries I have visited and lived in America has always felt most like a police state to me. Cops are aggressive, overzealous and tend to show zero tolerance. In general anybody with some authority are kind of scary in the US. Just look at immigration in the US. You will be hard pressed to find immigration in other developed countries behaving in this manner. What I notice most interacting with American at authorities are all the threats. Pretty much any document you sign elaborate quite a lot on the dire consequences of filling it out wrong. And as one can see online and I have experience myself, the Us is a country in perpetual paranoia. Cops get called all the time for nothing. And they abide. There is not any issue small enough for them to not show up. And they are not nice. They act like police state police. You can look at videos online of police arrests and dealing with different situations. American police tend to escalate and be very brutal. Slamming people to the ground. Beating them up. Pointing guns and yelling. Handcuffing even small kids. A ridiculous practice seen from the perspective of other actually free countries. No, the US is an embarrassment to liberal democracy. It makes the rest of us living in democracies look bad.

chrisin2d 6y ago

There's more to life than money. The USA offers higher quality of life and has a cosmopolitan, multicultural society. I live in the Netherlands, where I enjoy an extremely high quality of life, get access to diverse cultural programs, and get to meet interesting individuals from every corner of the earth who have come to pursue art, technology, and science here. Dutch tech salaries aren't the highest, but I'm living a great life. Dutch and American societies are open-minded and immigrant-oriented: both readily and easily assimilate millions of immigrants. During uni, I did an exchange study in Beijing and Shanghai. I'm open to working a short gig in China, but I would never settle down there. Chinese cities have thin veneers of modernity and glitz, but they are polluted, offer poor quality of life, and—aside from small expat circles—are monocultural from a global viewpoint. I am thoroughly convinced that China lacks the West's ability to draw, retain, and assimilate foreign talent en masse.

Hokusai 6y ago
> There's more to life than money. I completely agree, that's why I emigrated to Sweden (not so different that the Netherlands) instead of the USA. But many people gives high value to money and high status. > China lacks the West's ability to draw, retain, and assimilate foreign talent en masse That is probably true for now. I have seen the USA loosing that appeal, China may gain it. Hong Kong is going to be a test bed on China capacity to keep foreigners in the country as the region is already diverse. China lacked the money to be multicultural, people was not willing to move to a poor country. That may change and Western democracies need to stop thinking that are the best in the world and work more to improve education, health care, inequality reduction and quality of life if we do not want to be surpassed in the future.

graeme 6y ago

People move to many countries but China is not one of them. Those of Chinese descent are the one exception in Chinese immigration. If non-Chinese started moving to China in large numbers this would be a notable change, and the OP’s question makes sense. “ In 2016, China issued 1,576 permanent residency cards. This was more than double what it had issued the previous year, but still roughly 750 times lower than the United States’ 1.2 million.[1]” “ The only significant immigration to China has been by the Overseas Chinese, who in the years since 1949 have been offered various enticements to return to their homeland. Several million may have done so since 1949. The largest influx came in 1978–79, when about 160,000 to 250,000 ethnic Chinese refugees fled Vietnam for southern China, as relations between the two countries worsened. Many of these refugees were settled in state farms on Hainan Island in the South China Sea.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_China

tanilama 6y ago
You don’t need a PR to move to China. PR is for immigration and China isn’t an immigrant country. I agree however not a lot westerner immigrated China in masses. I don’t think you would live a normal life there without knowing Chinese, it will be painful. The immigration policy is mostly nonexisten, which by itself says a lot about the government's attitude towards foreigners in general. On the other hand, China could be attractive place to gain experience with, it is vast complex and completely different from the West.

ioctrl 6y ago

About 14% of the US population (1 in 7 people) were born in another country. Compare this to 0.07% of the Chinese population. San Francisco is 34% foreign born, compared to 0.7% in Shanghai. China is not really in the conversation when it comes to foreign talent yet. But that could change over time.