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There is a certain kernel of truth to it. I work at Google, and doing anything at all is a chore - it's almost as if we're back to programming with punch cards.

There is a certain kernel of truth to it. I work at Google, and doing anything at all is a chore - it's almost as if we're back to programming with punch cards. It's not surprising that Python doesn't work well in such a high-delay dev environment.

snazz 6y ago
I haven't worked at Google or any other big tech company, but I understand that Google's culture is far more like academia anyway. Compared to Facebook, Google prioritizes code quality over development speed. Other companies seem to fall somewhere in between.
- kudokatz 6y ago
  > Google prioritizes code quality over development speed. That's putting it nicely. Based on experience, I'd say it's arguing about preferences while demanding that code be coupled because "that's how we do things here". > culture is far more like academia anyway Academia is actually based on research and correctness to a much higher degree. The lack of focus on correctness in code worked on at Google is, honestly, appalling. Until, of course, you realize that all other FAANG employees still write loads of concurrency bugs and pronounce themselves gods for doing so.
  - joshuamorton 6y ago
    > That's putting it nicely. Based on experience, I'd say it's arguing about preferences while demanding that code be coupled because "that's how we do things here". That's certainly not been my experience (and I get the exact opposite impression from people involved in the formal readability process). > Academia is actually based on research and correctness to a much higher degree. This depends, greatly, on what part of academia you're in. In many ways, Google is much better about correctness than much of academia (reproducibility, for example, is often near trivial at Google but uncommon in most non-theoretical areas of academia). > The lack of focus on correctness in code worked on at Google is, honestly, appaling There are tradeoffs here. On the one hand, you have tens of thousands of engineers, you're not going to be able to enforce perfection by every single one with the tools available today with a reasonable cost. On the one hand, I see evidence that Google is willing to invest huge amounts into improving software correctness at the lowest levels (like proposing and upstreaming changes to languages to improve correctness-by-default).
higerordermap 6y ago
Hi, can you elaborate the high delay part? Is it the case that all code is accessed through internal network using FUSE or something? Or is it because monorepo?

snazz 6y ago

I haven't worked at Google or any other big tech company, but I understand that Google's culture is far more like academia anyway. Compared to Facebook, Google prioritizes code quality over development speed. Other companies seem to fall somewhere in between.

kudokatz 6y ago
> Google prioritizes code quality over development speed. That's putting it nicely. Based on experience, I'd say it's arguing about preferences while demanding that code be coupled because "that's how we do things here". > culture is far more like academia anyway Academia is actually based on research and correctness to a much higher degree. The lack of focus on correctness in code worked on at Google is, honestly, appalling. Until, of course, you realize that all other FAANG employees still write loads of concurrency bugs and pronounce themselves gods for doing so.
- joshuamorton 6y ago
  > That's putting it nicely. Based on experience, I'd say it's arguing about preferences while demanding that code be coupled because "that's how we do things here". That's certainly not been my experience (and I get the exact opposite impression from people involved in the formal readability process). > Academia is actually based on research and correctness to a much higher degree. This depends, greatly, on what part of academia you're in. In many ways, Google is much better about correctness than much of academia (reproducibility, for example, is often near trivial at Google but uncommon in most non-theoretical areas of academia). > The lack of focus on correctness in code worked on at Google is, honestly, appaling There are tradeoffs here. On the one hand, you have tens of thousands of engineers, you're not going to be able to enforce perfection by every single one with the tools available today with a reasonable cost. On the one hand, I see evidence that Google is willing to invest huge amounts into improving software correctness at the lowest levels (like proposing and upstreaming changes to languages to improve correctness-by-default).

higerordermap 6y ago

Hi, can you elaborate the high delay part? Is it the case that all code is accessed through internal network using FUSE or something? Or is it because monorepo?