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I don't find it rude to point out that you asked for citation in this exact thread, and then didn't provide any yourself while making some pretty serious claims

I don't find it rude to point out that you asked for citation in this exact thread, and then didn't provide any yourself while making some pretty serious claims. Thank you for the citations. These make a very strong case for showing poor living conditions in your area, and I empathize with that - please don't think that I'm debating this fact. I'm not entirely sure how it relates to my comment which is a nit about veganism's fundamental issue with defining it's own belief systems effectively. Are humans considered animals? Is the issue that some things are treated as commodities at all, or just that living things are? Are we okay with treating people as commodities, but just not "animals"? As in, it's okay to buy human-animal created products (like a phone or a computer), but not to buy wool socks because that is animal cruelty? I'm not suggesting that people aren't treated as commodities, I'm suggesting the opposite. Your citations (unfortunately) add to my point.

dzolob 6y ago
The rudeness was not in the citation request, but in the “I think you don’t know how a citation works” comment. I find hard to believe you really needed/wanted a citation on what I stated just to equiparate my post to a citation request on a sentientness scale on a different comment. I’ve read Hofstader and I know some of the origins of these scales and their are based on all but true scientific method. That aside, how can we expect to treat animals better than we treat ourselves? And that’s why veganism without ethics is just another form of consumerism. It’s late at night and I will fail to provide citation, but you can google how quinoa prices skyrocketed when became part of the superfood/healthy eating/vegan culture of rich populations, and what this meant for the locals that used to grow it and eat it. I say the above (the google it part) without trying to be offensive and with an olive branch, looking forward to go deeper in this reflections.

dzolob 6y ago

The rudeness was not in the citation request, but in the “I think you don’t know how a citation works” comment. I find hard to believe you really needed/wanted a citation on what I stated just to equiparate my post to a citation request on a sentientness scale on a different comment. I’ve read Hofstader and I know some of the origins of these scales and their are based on all but true scientific method. That aside, how can we expect to treat animals better than we treat ourselves? And that’s why veganism without ethics is just another form of consumerism. It’s late at night and I will fail to provide citation, but you can google how quinoa prices skyrocketed when became part of the superfood/healthy eating/vegan culture of rich populations, and what this meant for the locals that used to grow it and eat it. I say the above (the google it part) without trying to be offensive and with an olive branch, looking forward to go deeper in this reflections.