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The army needs propaganda to recruit people because it's not just a job. Soldiers don't have the right to quit if they don't like the working conditions. But ma

The army needs propaganda to recruit people because it's not just a job. Soldiers don't have the right to quit if they don't like the working conditions. But many people actually sign up (or re-up) for the money, to pay off student loans, etc. If more workers are needed to care for covid patients then the wages will rise, and more workers will switch from other jobs to perform this work. Training people to empty bedpans, draw blood, monitor diagnostic equipment, and so on is not any more complex than what people learn in a code bootcamp, and code bootcamps are doing fine. Nursing isn't some kind of uniquely difficult occupation. If a pilot can learn to fly helicopters commercially in a year then I would propose that we can train people to do this, too.

dragontamer 6y ago
> The army needs propaganda to recruit people because it's not just a job. Soldiers don't have the right to quit if they don't like the working conditions. But many people actually sign up (or re-up) for the money, to pay off student loans, etc. Look man, if you don't want me comparing nurses to the military, then don't bring it up in the first place (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25213289 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25213289) > This is what the army does, it works fine. Your words, not mine. Find a better comparison. And no, I don't think your "helicopter pilot" argument is serious at this point. There's no way you actually consider helicopter pilots as important as nurses right now. ----------- > Nursing isn't some kind of uniquely difficult occupation. If a pilot can learn to fly helicopters commercially in a year then I would propose that we can train people to do this, too. If a nurse quits on their job, then their patients die. You can't just get "another nurse" to do their job (those nurses are also overworked and busy). If a helicopter pilot quits their job, their passengers need to wait a few more days to find a new pilot. I have my doubts you're serious with the helicopter discussion point. I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to prove.
- michaniskin 6y ago
  Sorry, perhaps I digressed. To get back to the point: > If a nurse quits on their job, then their patients die. This is obviously not true, people are not dropping like flies whenever a nurse in America takes a vacation or calls in sick. Are you seriously claiming that there is a national shortage of people who can be trained to empty bedpans, setup IVs, draw blood, and take temperatures? At any price? If wages go up, more labor will be available, and there is no shortage.
  - dragontamer 6y ago
    > Are you seriously claiming that there is a national shortage of people who can be trained to empty bedpans, setup IVs, draw blood, and take temperatures? At any price? Yes. Because COVID19 is happening right now. Even if you had infinite money, there's no way you can train all of those people to take care of the COVID19 surge that is literally happening right now. The effects of the pandemic are here and are already having obvious consequences. --- COVID19's job is closer to shoving catheters into people while you put them under a ventilator, setting up IV drips, etc. etc. But yeah, its happening on a massive scale as we speak. > This is obviously not true, people are not dropping like flies whenever a nurse in America takes a vacation or calls in sick. Lets see how long those patients last if a nurse doesn't change out their bedpans or catheters, while refreshing their IV-drips while they're on a ventilator. Plus the math for keeping track of vitals to determine how many corticosteroids to inject into someone to optimize their chances to live through it all. ------- https://oklahoman.com/article/5677006/asymptomatic-health-care-workers-with-covid-19-allowed-to-continue-working-in-oklahoma https://oklahoman.com/article/5677006/asymptomatic-health-ca... I'm not sure if you realize how dire the situation is right now. Nurses who test positive for COVID19 are being kept on the job because there's literally too many patients and not enough nurses.
    - michaniskin 6y ago
      > COVID19's job is closer to shoving catheters into people while you put them under a ventilator, setting up IV drips, etc. etc. OK, so how many years of training is required to learn how to insert catheters and IVs and all that? The army demonstrates that anyone can learn these skills in a few days. I'm sorry, but it's just not some kind of unique magical skill set that only special people can learn. > I'm not sure if you realize how dire the situation is right now. I'm not sure if you do. There is no crisis, hospitals are not near capacity, there are plenty of empty beds. (Oklahoma, for example, is at 66% capacity, nothing to get hysterical about.) There is no huge difference in hospital bed utilization between today, last week, last month. Remember that giant hospital ship? The one that sat empty in NY harbor and then quietly left without treating a single patient? Excuse me for being desensitized to chicken little's alarming news. > Nurses who test positive for COVID19 are being kept on the job because there's literally too many patients and not enough nurses. Nobody is being "kept on the job". Nobody is being forced to work. Those nurses are volunteering to stay on the job.

dragontamer 6y ago

> The army needs propaganda to recruit people because it's not just a job. Soldiers don't have the right to quit if they don't like the working conditions. But many people actually sign up (or re-up) for the money, to pay off student loans, etc. Look man, if you don't want me comparing nurses to the military, then don't bring it up in the first place (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25213289 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25213289) > This is what the army does, it works fine. Your words, not mine. Find a better comparison. And no, I don't think your "helicopter pilot" argument is serious at this point. There's no way you actually consider helicopter pilots as important as nurses right now. ----------- > Nursing isn't some kind of uniquely difficult occupation. If a pilot can learn to fly helicopters commercially in a year then I would propose that we can train people to do this, too. If a nurse quits on their job, then their patients die. You can't just get "another nurse" to do their job (those nurses are also overworked and busy). If a helicopter pilot quits their job, their passengers need to wait a few more days to find a new pilot. I have my doubts you're serious with the helicopter discussion point. I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to prove.

michaniskin 6y ago
Sorry, perhaps I digressed. To get back to the point: > If a nurse quits on their job, then their patients die. This is obviously not true, people are not dropping like flies whenever a nurse in America takes a vacation or calls in sick. Are you seriously claiming that there is a national shortage of people who can be trained to empty bedpans, setup IVs, draw blood, and take temperatures? At any price? If wages go up, more labor will be available, and there is no shortage.
- dragontamer 6y ago
  > Are you seriously claiming that there is a national shortage of people who can be trained to empty bedpans, setup IVs, draw blood, and take temperatures? At any price? Yes. Because COVID19 is happening right now. Even if you had infinite money, there's no way you can train all of those people to take care of the COVID19 surge that is literally happening right now. The effects of the pandemic are here and are already having obvious consequences. --- COVID19's job is closer to shoving catheters into people while you put them under a ventilator, setting up IV drips, etc. etc. But yeah, its happening on a massive scale as we speak. > This is obviously not true, people are not dropping like flies whenever a nurse in America takes a vacation or calls in sick. Lets see how long those patients last if a nurse doesn't change out their bedpans or catheters, while refreshing their IV-drips while they're on a ventilator. Plus the math for keeping track of vitals to determine how many corticosteroids to inject into someone to optimize their chances to live through it all. ------- https://oklahoman.com/article/5677006/asymptomatic-health-care-workers-with-covid-19-allowed-to-continue-working-in-oklahoma https://oklahoman.com/article/5677006/asymptomatic-health-ca... I'm not sure if you realize how dire the situation is right now. Nurses who test positive for COVID19 are being kept on the job because there's literally too many patients and not enough nurses.
  - michaniskin 6y ago
    > COVID19's job is closer to shoving catheters into people while you put them under a ventilator, setting up IV drips, etc. etc. OK, so how many years of training is required to learn how to insert catheters and IVs and all that? The army demonstrates that anyone can learn these skills in a few days. I'm sorry, but it's just not some kind of unique magical skill set that only special people can learn. > I'm not sure if you realize how dire the situation is right now. I'm not sure if you do. There is no crisis, hospitals are not near capacity, there are plenty of empty beds. (Oklahoma, for example, is at 66% capacity, nothing to get hysterical about.) There is no huge difference in hospital bed utilization between today, last week, last month. Remember that giant hospital ship? The one that sat empty in NY harbor and then quietly left without treating a single patient? Excuse me for being desensitized to chicken little's alarming news. > Nurses who test positive for COVID19 are being kept on the job because there's literally too many patients and not enough nurses. Nobody is being "kept on the job". Nobody is being forced to work. Those nurses are volunteering to stay on the job.