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As someone who has previously worked on real time audio apps on Mac, I find the price justified. Supporting MacOS with anything that needs kernel drivers requi

As someone who has previously worked on real time audio apps on Mac, I find the price justified. Supporting MacOS with anything that needs kernel drivers requires constant updates and the potential market is so small that it kind of needs to be expensive per customer or else you need to cut corners with the quality. Windows has 5x the market share, so there you can sell for 80% less per user because you'll sell more licenses which compensates that. And a windows version for $2 per month sounds fair, so then $10 monthly on Mac is fair, too.

qppo 6y ago
Why do you need kernel extensions for realtime audio on Mac? If anything, CoreAudio is a dream to work with compared to the shitshow of APIs on Linux and Windows. Not to mention there are plenty of cross platform libraries for real time audio where you would never need to care about the difference.
- klik99 6y ago
  Anything that needs to create input/output devices for routing into other apps “in the box” requires kernel extensions. I’ve heard some hack together more real time guarantees for performance purposes (mac os has a habit of regressing on audio stream stability) but most people who need that guarantee will build on an open source os anyway. CoreAudio is great, but since everyone just uses cross platform libraries will rarely be utilized to its fullest.
  - nikanj 6y ago
    Big Sur doesn't even support kernel extensions, so this sounds unlikely.
    - klik99 6y ago
      Quick google shows that subset of kexts still allowed. I updated to Big Sur last week and installed kernel extensions for exactly this reason.
    - user-the-name 6y ago
      You might be confusing this with the fact that Big Sur, on Apple Silicon, does not support x86 kernel extensions. It still supports them elsewhere, and it supports arm64 kernel extensions on Apple Silicon.
Bishonen88 6y ago
in most cases, tools with subscriptions do not need more maintenance than products with a one-time purchase (don't know anything about this specific case, so dunno if it applies here). It's just that after adobe/jetbrains and others opened pandoras box, slowly but surely more and more devs try to make their tools to a continuous income stream... It get's really silly to the point that a snipping app has a yearly subscription (xnip), calendars have subscriptions (fantastical) and many other tools which once would have been a $20-$30 purchase all now want $3-$10 a month. Personally I'm sick of it. I'd rather go back to the 'old days'...
- kovek 6y ago
  Anyone could make a copy of fantastical and sell it for cheaper with less support. What do you think about such an alternative?
- ljm 6y ago
  Typically also done by forcing some 'cloud sync' into it and then using that to justify the switch, moving control of your data into their hands and holding it hostage. That was enough for me to ditch 1password in favour of bitwarden.
  - airtonix 6y ago
    except that in order to control your own data with bitwarden across many devices you need to spin up your own server. Should checkout Enpass. - Has google drive/dropbox/webdave sync connectors. - runs on android/ios/mac/linux/windows
  - reaperducer 6y ago
    Typically also done by forcing some 'cloud sync' into it and then using that to justify the switch Is this even needed on a Mac? Can't all Macintosh software just sync through iCloud, instead of relying on the developer's solution? / Serious question. I'm not a Mac software dev.
- fxtentacle 6y ago
  While I agree with you in general, this tool appears to rely on a kernel extension for their virtual Webcam. And that creates a lot of additional and ongoing maintenance work.
maest 6y ago
The problem is, the price is capped at the top by the value the buyer gets. The vagaries of doing real time audio on Macs don't have much weight on the price people will pay.
dakial1 6y ago
I completely understand your point of view of charging for the resources needed to get the work done, but the market does not really care for this and you need to charge what the clients are willing to pay for your product. If clients are willing to pay less than the value of the resources necessary to build and maintain the product, you have either a communication problem (you're not showing the right value to your clients), or a market fit problem.

qppo 6y ago

Why do you need kernel extensions for realtime audio on Mac? If anything, CoreAudio is a dream to work with compared to the shitshow of APIs on Linux and Windows. Not to mention there are plenty of cross platform libraries for real time audio where you would never need to care about the difference.

klik99 6y ago
Anything that needs to create input/output devices for routing into other apps “in the box” requires kernel extensions. I’ve heard some hack together more real time guarantees for performance purposes (mac os has a habit of regressing on audio stream stability) but most people who need that guarantee will build on an open source os anyway. CoreAudio is great, but since everyone just uses cross platform libraries will rarely be utilized to its fullest.
- nikanj 6y ago
  Big Sur doesn't even support kernel extensions, so this sounds unlikely.
  - klik99 6y ago
    Quick google shows that subset of kexts still allowed. I updated to Big Sur last week and installed kernel extensions for exactly this reason.
  - user-the-name 6y ago
    You might be confusing this with the fact that Big Sur, on Apple Silicon, does not support x86 kernel extensions. It still supports them elsewhere, and it supports arm64 kernel extensions on Apple Silicon.

Bishonen88 6y ago

in most cases, tools with subscriptions do not need more maintenance than products with a one-time purchase (don't know anything about this specific case, so dunno if it applies here). It's just that after adobe/jetbrains and others opened pandoras box, slowly but surely more and more devs try to make their tools to a continuous income stream... It get's really silly to the point that a snipping app has a yearly subscription (xnip), calendars have subscriptions (fantastical) and many other tools which once would have been a $20-$30 purchase all now want $3-$10 a month. Personally I'm sick of it. I'd rather go back to the 'old days'...

kovek 6y ago
Anyone could make a copy of fantastical and sell it for cheaper with less support. What do you think about such an alternative?
ljm 6y ago
Typically also done by forcing some 'cloud sync' into it and then using that to justify the switch, moving control of your data into their hands and holding it hostage. That was enough for me to ditch 1password in favour of bitwarden.
- airtonix 6y ago
  except that in order to control your own data with bitwarden across many devices you need to spin up your own server. Should checkout Enpass. - Has google drive/dropbox/webdave sync connectors. - runs on android/ios/mac/linux/windows
- reaperducer 6y ago
  Typically also done by forcing some 'cloud sync' into it and then using that to justify the switch Is this even needed on a Mac? Can't all Macintosh software just sync through iCloud, instead of relying on the developer's solution? / Serious question. I'm not a Mac software dev.
fxtentacle 6y ago
While I agree with you in general, this tool appears to rely on a kernel extension for their virtual Webcam. And that creates a lot of additional and ongoing maintenance work.

maest 6y ago

The problem is, the price is capped at the top by the value the buyer gets. The vagaries of doing real time audio on Macs don't have much weight on the price people will pay.

dakial1 6y ago

I completely understand your point of view of charging for the resources needed to get the work done, but the market does not really care for this and you need to charge what the clients are willing to pay for your product. If clients are willing to pay less than the value of the resources necessary to build and maintain the product, you have either a communication problem (you're not showing the right value to your clients), or a market fit problem.