4 ms·

Linux is the only unix OS that gets traction Darwin (macOS, iOS, iPadOS, tvOS, watchOS)? And I guess that technically Minix is one of the most successful Unix

Linux is the only unix OS that gets traction Darwin (macOS, iOS, iPadOS, tvOS, watchOS)? And I guess that technically Minix is one of the most successful Unix-like systems. [1] [1] https://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/intel/ https://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/intel/

wayneftw 6y ago
> iOS, iPadOS, tvOS, watchOS Those are systems for Apple to control you and their devices that you paid for, not for you to control any device that you own. Therefore, the only traction they've really gotten is with one single user - Apple. > macOS For now. (Relax everybody, I'm at least half kidding.)
- lrvick 6y ago
  I would say that is pretty spot on, and I would include MacOS in that list to a lesser extent too. You can't change much about how MacOS works under the hood anymore. If you don't like how it works, tough. The device and OS are not yours. Also why no one could pay me enough to rely on Apple hardware or software at this point for anything but entertainment.
spijdar 6y ago
Probably worth pointing out a significant portion of the BSD "personality" in the XNU kernel is just straight FreeBSD. You could kind of say XNU is a superset of the FreeBSD kernel. On top of that, the unix userland resembles FreeBSD, although it's pretty eclectic in choices, e.g. it ships with GNU grep and GNU make by default IIRC while I think FreeBSD uses BSD grep and make by default? (Darwin is pretty eclectic overall -- some portions are more NetBSDish. Kernel is mostly Free I think)
- wahern 6y ago
  macOS grep is from FreeBSD, at least as of macOS Mojave (10.14). (Source code for 10.14 might be at https://opensource.apple.com/source/text_cmds/text_cmds-99/grep/grep.c.auto.html https://opensource.apple.com/source/text_cmds/text_cmds-99/g....) Not sure if it was ever GNU grep. Maybe before the big purge in 2011? IME, most of the basic shell commands are either directly from FreeBSD or a project in the BSD universe. For example tar is from libarchive, a distinct project (see https://github.com/libarchive/libarchive https://github.com/libarchive/libarchive) that DragonflyBSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD, and macOS import and track. (But oddly not OpenBSD, which has evolved the 4.4BSD-Lite implementation.) According to a 2012 accounting at http://meta.ath0.com/2012/02/05/apples-great-gpl-purge/ http://meta.ath0.com/2012/02/05/apples-great-gpl-purge/ (via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3559990 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3559990), macOS was down to 16 GPL packages in macOS 10.12 from 47 in macOS 10.5.
  - danieldk 6y ago
    macOS grep is from FreeBSD, at least as of macOS Mojave (10.14). Yep, it still is. On Big Sur on M1: $ grep --version grep (BSD grep) 2.5.1-FreeBSD
    - spijdar 6y ago
      Yeah, I'm just an idiot. I guess I was just thinking of GNU make. On the other hand, it looks like (at least on Catalina?) it ships with GNU diffutils, so patch, cmp, diff are all GNU utilities. I'm going to sheepishly pretend like this proves my point somehow :-)
- kevans91 6y ago
  A little late to the party, but- MacOS has actually beaten FreeBSD to the punch by shipping with bsdgrep as grep for years at this point. FreeBSD should be able to switch before 13.0, but the bsdgrep developer is a slacker. It's only missing a couple of GNU extensions that are somewhat surprisingly (to me) common.
hollander 6y ago
How about the biggest: Android?!
- cferr 6y ago
  Android runs on a Linux kernel.

wayneftw 6y ago

> iOS, iPadOS, tvOS, watchOS Those are systems for Apple to control you and their devices that you paid for, not for you to control any device that you own. Therefore, the only traction they've really gotten is with one single user - Apple. > macOS For now. (Relax everybody, I'm at least half kidding.)

lrvick 6y ago
I would say that is pretty spot on, and I would include MacOS in that list to a lesser extent too. You can't change much about how MacOS works under the hood anymore. If you don't like how it works, tough. The device and OS are not yours. Also why no one could pay me enough to rely on Apple hardware or software at this point for anything but entertainment.

spijdar 6y ago

Probably worth pointing out a significant portion of the BSD "personality" in the XNU kernel is just straight FreeBSD. You could kind of say XNU is a superset of the FreeBSD kernel. On top of that, the unix userland resembles FreeBSD, although it's pretty eclectic in choices, e.g. it ships with GNU grep and GNU make by default IIRC while I think FreeBSD uses BSD grep and make by default? (Darwin is pretty eclectic overall -- some portions are more NetBSDish. Kernel is mostly Free I think)

wahern 6y ago
macOS grep is from FreeBSD, at least as of macOS Mojave (10.14). (Source code for 10.14 might be at https://opensource.apple.com/source/text_cmds/text_cmds-99/grep/grep.c.auto.html https://opensource.apple.com/source/text_cmds/text_cmds-99/g....) Not sure if it was ever GNU grep. Maybe before the big purge in 2011? IME, most of the basic shell commands are either directly from FreeBSD or a project in the BSD universe. For example tar is from libarchive, a distinct project (see https://github.com/libarchive/libarchive https://github.com/libarchive/libarchive) that DragonflyBSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD, and macOS import and track. (But oddly not OpenBSD, which has evolved the 4.4BSD-Lite implementation.) According to a 2012 accounting at http://meta.ath0.com/2012/02/05/apples-great-gpl-purge/ http://meta.ath0.com/2012/02/05/apples-great-gpl-purge/ (via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3559990 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3559990), macOS was down to 16 GPL packages in macOS 10.12 from 47 in macOS 10.5.
- danieldk 6y ago
  macOS grep is from FreeBSD, at least as of macOS Mojave (10.14). Yep, it still is. On Big Sur on M1: $ grep --version grep (BSD grep) 2.5.1-FreeBSD
  - spijdar 6y ago
    Yeah, I'm just an idiot. I guess I was just thinking of GNU make. On the other hand, it looks like (at least on Catalina?) it ships with GNU diffutils, so patch, cmp, diff are all GNU utilities. I'm going to sheepishly pretend like this proves my point somehow :-)
kevans91 6y ago
A little late to the party, but- MacOS has actually beaten FreeBSD to the punch by shipping with bsdgrep as grep for years at this point. FreeBSD should be able to switch before 13.0, but the bsdgrep developer is a slacker. It's only missing a couple of GNU extensions that are somewhat surprisingly (to me) common.

hollander 6y ago

How about the biggest: Android?!

cferr 6y ago
Android runs on a Linux kernel.