4 ms·

At what point does FSF loose it’s credibility? After forcing stallman out or after they release video conferencing, like the rest of the open source world after

At what point does FSF loose it’s credibility? After forcing stallman out or after they release video conferencing, like the rest of the open source world after seeing zoom’s explosive growth? I have nothing against building a conference system. I’ve done so in the past. What strikes me though is that this is coming from FSF, a foundation about privacy and freedom, not software and services. Am I missing something?

kanox 6y ago
The FSF is absolutely about software and promoting free/libre alternatives to proprietary solutions is their core activity.
- dralley 6y ago
  Well, not entirely. The decision years ago or GCC to deliberately obfuscate its inner workings so that it was impossible for proprietary plugins to be created (but also free plugins also) heavily contributed to the dominance of LLVM. GCC is still the only compiler for a couple of obscure architectures and the main compiler for most linux distros, but it's starting to lose ground there too. And the tooling ecosystem has totally moved to LLVM basically. And they have had little if any focus on the Web until recently, it feels like they're still living in the 1990s. Stallman's departure might have been helpful in getting them to start broadening their horizons a bit.
  - inglor_cz 6y ago
    Can I read up a bit more about that decision somewhere? Do you have any recommendations? I noticed the massive ecosystem shift towards LLVM, ofc, but I never stopped to think why this happened. GCC source code was always rather Greek to me, so making it even less readable deliberately sounds like a bad decision.
    - johnny22 6y ago
      Here's an overview of at least part of the discussion https://lwn.net/Articles/582697/ https://lwn.net/Articles/582697/
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
ohthehugemanate 6y ago
Well, those aren't necessarily orthogonal. Firefox fits squarely into Mozilla's Internet freedom and privacy goals.
duskwuff 6y ago
You're misconstruing the content of this blog post. It's about the activities of the technical support team at the FSF, not the FSF as a whole. One of the things they've mentioned they're doing is implementing Jitsi conferencing for their staff to use. They're not writing a new piece of software, and they're not trying to stand up a big public service -- this is really just an internal project.
- gabereiser 6y ago
  This is what I was missing. Thanks for clearing that up.
okprod 6y ago
The FSF didn't force RMS out; he voluntarily resigned so as not to have external events hurt the FSF. You can email him if you don't believe this. He's been pretty clear about that. The FSF released free software video conferencing to associate members. This is the exact opposite of proprietary platforms like Zoom and is part of the mission of the FSF, to promote and defend user freedom. The organization isn't solely about writing on privacy and freedom; it also focuses on tangible ways to have privacy and freedom, and a free software solution that isn't Zoom does that.
- Forx 6y ago
  <quote>The FSF didn't force RMS out</quote> This is what RMS declared: "I hereby resign ... due to pressure on the Foundation and me..." We know pressure on the foundation came from SFConservancy, GNOME, various groups aligned with SJW, among others. But we are left to wonder who could've possibly pressured _him_. The FSF itself, maybe? Board? ED? Staff? <quote>The FSF released free software video conferencing to associate members.</quote> Yes, and I agree it's a clever way to get more donations.
  - okprod 6y ago
    I had lunch with RMS the other week. Email him if you don't believe me that the FSF didn't force him out.
boomboomsubban 6y ago
The Free Software Foundation has always been about free software first. You seem to be describing the EFF more than the FSF >after they release video conferencing, like the rest of the open source world after seeing zoom’s explosive growth? They've considered real-time video and voice chat a high priority project since at least 2008, it's not like they've just taken an interest. They had an internal need to set up a system, and are offering the system to others who may need it

kanox 6y ago

The FSF is absolutely about software and promoting free/libre alternatives to proprietary solutions is their core activity.

dralley 6y ago
Well, not entirely. The decision years ago or GCC to deliberately obfuscate its inner workings so that it was impossible for proprietary plugins to be created (but also free plugins also) heavily contributed to the dominance of LLVM. GCC is still the only compiler for a couple of obscure architectures and the main compiler for most linux distros, but it's starting to lose ground there too. And the tooling ecosystem has totally moved to LLVM basically. And they have had little if any focus on the Web until recently, it feels like they're still living in the 1990s. Stallman's departure might have been helpful in getting them to start broadening their horizons a bit.
- inglor_cz 6y ago
  Can I read up a bit more about that decision somewhere? Do you have any recommendations? I noticed the massive ecosystem shift towards LLVM, ofc, but I never stopped to think why this happened. GCC source code was always rather Greek to me, so making it even less readable deliberately sounds like a bad decision.
  - johnny22 6y ago
    Here's an overview of at least part of the discussion https://lwn.net/Articles/582697/ https://lwn.net/Articles/582697/
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

ohthehugemanate 6y ago

Well, those aren't necessarily orthogonal. Firefox fits squarely into Mozilla's Internet freedom and privacy goals.

duskwuff 6y ago

You're misconstruing the content of this blog post. It's about the activities of the technical support team at the FSF, not the FSF as a whole. One of the things they've mentioned they're doing is implementing Jitsi conferencing for their staff to use. They're not writing a new piece of software, and they're not trying to stand up a big public service -- this is really just an internal project.

gabereiser 6y ago
This is what I was missing. Thanks for clearing that up.

okprod 6y ago

The FSF didn't force RMS out; he voluntarily resigned so as not to have external events hurt the FSF. You can email him if you don't believe this. He's been pretty clear about that. The FSF released free software video conferencing to associate members. This is the exact opposite of proprietary platforms like Zoom and is part of the mission of the FSF, to promote and defend user freedom. The organization isn't solely about writing on privacy and freedom; it also focuses on tangible ways to have privacy and freedom, and a free software solution that isn't Zoom does that.

Forx 6y ago
<quote>The FSF didn't force RMS out</quote> This is what RMS declared: "I hereby resign ... due to pressure on the Foundation and me..." We know pressure on the foundation came from SFConservancy, GNOME, various groups aligned with SJW, among others. But we are left to wonder who could've possibly pressured _him_. The FSF itself, maybe? Board? ED? Staff? <quote>The FSF released free software video conferencing to associate members.</quote> Yes, and I agree it's a clever way to get more donations.
- okprod 6y ago
  I had lunch with RMS the other week. Email him if you don't believe me that the FSF didn't force him out.

boomboomsubban 6y ago

The Free Software Foundation has always been about free software first. You seem to be describing the EFF more than the FSF >after they release video conferencing, like the rest of the open source world after seeing zoom’s explosive growth? They've considered real-time video and voice chat a high priority project since at least 2008, it's not like they've just taken an interest. They had an internal need to set up a system, and are offering the system to others who may need it