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Couldn't disagree more strongly. The web worked because of its unique network architecture (REST/HATEOAS) which handles a chaotic, loosely coupled and dynamica

Couldn't disagree more strongly. The web worked because of its unique network architecture (REST/HATEOAS) which handles a chaotic, loosely coupled and dynamically evolving network topology extremely well. The web suffered from the fact that HTML was a limited hypertext, which hurt usability and encouraged javascript-based work arounds. So we should fix that, rather than tossing the idea of a hypertext architecture. (That's exactly what I tried to do with https://htmx.org https://htmx.org, which just went 1.0 btw) There are tons of hacks and problems with layout and all the rest, but that has nothing to do with using javascript over the original hypertext model for the web. That's just how real world systems end up when they are the most successful network architecture ever devised.

w_t_payne 6y ago
HTMX is awesome, by the way. Thank you for making it! I use it in combination with Python dominate and tailwind.css to write UI components that I can just plug together in a dataflow model at the back-end, and so far it's working amazingly well ... it's well on it's way to becoming a no-code application and UI framework..
zackmorris 6y ago
Thank you, htmx looks conceptually more like the web should have been. I wanted things like server side includes (SSI) on the frontend, so that we could swap out portions of pages (with security issues solved obviously). We could have also had subresource integrity (SRI), and included our Javascripts in pieces from anywhere based on their hash, rather than using Webpack. But instead we got the mess that is cross-origin resource sharing (CORS), which became such a frustration that we don't even blink at 10 MB app.js files. We want a web that is declarative, data-driven and functional wherever possible. Which means that we should be moving away from asynchronous nondeterministic Javascript, not towards it. So ya, the article gets it almost completely backwards.
deleted 6y ago
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pmarreck 6y ago
100% agree that declarative-as-much-as-possible is waaaaay easier to maintain/grok than procedural-as-much-as-possible

w_t_payne 6y ago

HTMX is awesome, by the way. Thank you for making it! I use it in combination with Python dominate and tailwind.css to write UI components that I can just plug together in a dataflow model at the back-end, and so far it's working amazingly well ... it's well on it's way to becoming a no-code application and UI framework..

zackmorris 6y ago

Thank you, htmx looks conceptually more like the web should have been. I wanted things like server side includes (SSI) on the frontend, so that we could swap out portions of pages (with security issues solved obviously). We could have also had subresource integrity (SRI), and included our Javascripts in pieces from anywhere based on their hash, rather than using Webpack. But instead we got the mess that is cross-origin resource sharing (CORS), which became such a frustration that we don't even blink at 10 MB app.js files. We want a web that is declarative, data-driven and functional wherever possible. Which means that we should be moving away from asynchronous nondeterministic Javascript, not towards it. So ya, the article gets it almost completely backwards.

deleted 6y ago

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pmarreck 6y ago

100% agree that declarative-as-much-as-possible is waaaaay easier to maintain/grok than procedural-as-much-as-possible