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No-Logo by Naomi Klein outlined how brands work. One factor in the irrational defence could be a kind of psychological protection of investment. Apple isnt jus

No-Logo by Naomi Klein outlined how brands work. One factor in the irrational defence could be a kind of psychological protection of investment. Apple isnt just another company, its an entire lifestyle ecosystem. Those invested in Apple have the watch, tv, laptop, itunes etc. And together they really do "just work" - the user experience is great! So to admit that Apple is flawed, that their investment was a bad idea is to admit they were wrong and that their time and money was wasted. No-one wants to be a sucker. Far better therefore to protect your investment. Apple really are genius to pull this off. Apple is part of people's identity.

nbzso 6y ago
"One factor in the irrational defence could be a kind of psychological protection of investment." The Author of this publication is clearly invested deeply in Apple ecosystem as a developer. One of the reasons that I consider using Mac OS behind hardware firewall in the future is clear realisation of this process. This telemetry malpractice clearly must be prevented by legislative measures. Trust is earned by transparency, not by some kind of Security slogans.
blub 6y ago
But they're not wrong at all and their time and money was well invested. The ecosystem does just work and the user experience is great compared to the alternatives. It's also possible to use only specific products and switch off various cloud or telemetry options. There's still a long way to go to reach a private OS, but Apple has by far the best privacy stance when compared to Google or Microsoft and there is nobody who offers such an OS right now. The best one can hope for is build their own Linux-based distro or use BSD and then one has to be prepared to invest a significant amount of time. Apple didn't get challenged through the GDPR yet because everyone's busy with Google and Facebook still. But, if you or anyone else would like to lodge a complaint, maybe this will be decided for the customers (I think it's borderline) and we'll get an option to switch it off.
krrrh 6y ago
The article points out that while there are drawbacks to checking app signatures, there have also been documented benefits in terms of uncovering vulnerabilities and making systems more secure, which also has direct privacy benefits to the users whose systems don't become compromised by malware. The balancing act between freedom and security is never going to not be a debate. Engaging in it in good faith as in the linked article is a reasonable approach (that you don't usually see represented in Klein's oeuvre): consider tradeoffs, counterarguments, and historical context from different perspectives. Apple is flawed sure, because all complex solutions are inherently flawed. They have a responsibility to be more open and transparent, and I'd prefer to see more details and updates to their otherwise laudable security whitepaper [1], and clearer more accessible user-definable toggles. But your or my preferred solution probably isn't the ideal default for most users, or for the ecosystem as a whole. [1] https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/1000/MA1902/en_US/apple-platform-security-guide.pdf https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/1000/MA1902/en_US/app...
- AshWolfy 6y ago
  Signature checking is not what people are mad about, the only way to get anything not bad from this situation is in the most abstract view that signature checking is not bad thats the problem with people who dismiss Klein and her "oeuvre" you are so desperate to stay in the middle you refuse to see evidence right in front of your face
  - krrrh 6y ago
    Sometimes people just draw different conclusions because they have different values and priorities or willingness to accept incremental progress. I’m not dismissing Klein, I referred to her “oeuvre” out of my respect for her as an artist.
aikinai 6y ago
This is a good explanation about why people defend brands, but in case of Apple, my experience is that the anti-Apple crowd is more emotionally invested in being anti-Apple than the fans are for it. It used to be the other way around when Apple was the underdog, but after the iPhone took over and became a sort of default for certain regions and social circles, the most loyal brand warriors are the anything-but-Apple fans.
- thinkingemote 6y ago
  The most vocal, emotionally invested anti-apple crowd are those who were once emotionally invested in Apple. Similar to an anti-smoker, ex-cult member, ex-mormon or vegan convert - those who have been burnt are often the loudest. The same psychological effects are in play - people will try to defend the hurt to their ego. There is no brand of "anti-Apple" - that doesn't really exist as brands don't work like that BUT groups of people do though, and people can have identities of being in a group. (I can't really say I have noticed an anti-apple subreddit either) One way groups defend themselves is to define the opposition - by defining the opposition to Apple fans as anti-apple-groups, it helps bolster the coherence of the Apple fan group and defend the brand and investment for the individual. We are under attack, close ranks and protect each other.

nbzso 6y ago

"One factor in the irrational defence could be a kind of psychological protection of investment." The Author of this publication is clearly invested deeply in Apple ecosystem as a developer. One of the reasons that I consider using Mac OS behind hardware firewall in the future is clear realisation of this process. This telemetry malpractice clearly must be prevented by legislative measures. Trust is earned by transparency, not by some kind of Security slogans.

blub 6y ago

But they're not wrong at all and their time and money was well invested. The ecosystem does just work and the user experience is great compared to the alternatives. It's also possible to use only specific products and switch off various cloud or telemetry options. There's still a long way to go to reach a private OS, but Apple has by far the best privacy stance when compared to Google or Microsoft and there is nobody who offers such an OS right now. The best one can hope for is build their own Linux-based distro or use BSD and then one has to be prepared to invest a significant amount of time. Apple didn't get challenged through the GDPR yet because everyone's busy with Google and Facebook still. But, if you or anyone else would like to lodge a complaint, maybe this will be decided for the customers (I think it's borderline) and we'll get an option to switch it off.

krrrh 6y ago

The article points out that while there are drawbacks to checking app signatures, there have also been documented benefits in terms of uncovering vulnerabilities and making systems more secure, which also has direct privacy benefits to the users whose systems don't become compromised by malware. The balancing act between freedom and security is never going to not be a debate. Engaging in it in good faith as in the linked article is a reasonable approach (that you don't usually see represented in Klein's oeuvre): consider tradeoffs, counterarguments, and historical context from different perspectives. Apple is flawed sure, because all complex solutions are inherently flawed. They have a responsibility to be more open and transparent, and I'd prefer to see more details and updates to their otherwise laudable security whitepaper [1], and clearer more accessible user-definable toggles. But your or my preferred solution probably isn't the ideal default for most users, or for the ecosystem as a whole. [1] https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/1000/MA1902/en_US/apple-platform-security-guide.pdf https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/1000/MA1902/en_US/app...

AshWolfy 6y ago
Signature checking is not what people are mad about, the only way to get anything not bad from this situation is in the most abstract view that signature checking is not bad thats the problem with people who dismiss Klein and her "oeuvre" you are so desperate to stay in the middle you refuse to see evidence right in front of your face
- krrrh 6y ago
  Sometimes people just draw different conclusions because they have different values and priorities or willingness to accept incremental progress. I’m not dismissing Klein, I referred to her “oeuvre” out of my respect for her as an artist.

aikinai 6y ago

This is a good explanation about why people defend brands, but in case of Apple, my experience is that the anti-Apple crowd is more emotionally invested in being anti-Apple than the fans are for it. It used to be the other way around when Apple was the underdog, but after the iPhone took over and became a sort of default for certain regions and social circles, the most loyal brand warriors are the anything-but-Apple fans.

thinkingemote 6y ago
The most vocal, emotionally invested anti-apple crowd are those who were once emotionally invested in Apple. Similar to an anti-smoker, ex-cult member, ex-mormon or vegan convert - those who have been burnt are often the loudest. The same psychological effects are in play - people will try to defend the hurt to their ego. There is no brand of "anti-Apple" - that doesn't really exist as brands don't work like that BUT groups of people do though, and people can have identities of being in a group. (I can't really say I have noticed an anti-apple subreddit either) One way groups defend themselves is to define the opposition - by defining the opposition to Apple fans as anti-apple-groups, it helps bolster the coherence of the Apple fan group and defend the brand and investment for the individual. We are under attack, close ranks and protect each other.