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Obama LITERALLY changed the definition of enemy combatant so that he did not have to report such high civilian casualty rates, as part of the CIA's program to u

Obama LITERALLY changed the definition of enemy combatant so that he did not have to report such high civilian casualty rates, as part of the CIA's program to use his popularity to sell endless wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, etc. The definition was changed, essentially, to this: if they were killed by drone, they were enemies. Didn't matter if they were standing there in the market that day, lined up to buy bread. Didn't matter if they were responding in between the double taps to help their fellow citizens locate their limbs, recover their loved ones from under the rubble, etc. "If they were drone-striked, its because they were combatants." Thus, 'Obama killed less civilians' can be sold. That this was also abused under Trump is not in question. Comparing these two war criminals to each other to find out which was the nicer is an utterly ludicrous exercise.

boomboomsubban 6y ago
The official civilian casualty numbers have always been pure bullshit, we know from the Manning leaks that Bush had hidden 15,000 civilian deaths in Iraq. Obamas change did not drastically alter how the deaths were reported.
- somesortofsystm 6y ago
  Actually, they did. Obama started counting everyone in the drone sights as enemy combatants. They were bullshit reports before Obama. They became even more bullshit during Obama. And the bullshit is out of control now.
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    Both numbers are made up, but do you have any source showing Obama started the military age male policy? All I can find is a government source agent said he "embraced it" in regard to drone strikes while the practice was used in several other areas during the Bush administration, such as who could face "enhanced interrogation." Further, some of the earlier sources I found retracted the statement to clarify that Obama embraced the Bush designation. https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/opinion/2012-05-29/analysis-obama-embraced-redefinition-of-civilian-in-drone-wars https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/opinion/2012-05-29/ana...
    - somesortofsystm 6y ago
      https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/under-obama-men-killed-by-drones-are-presumed-to-be-terrorists/257749/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/under-o... From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_from_U.S._drone_strikes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_from_U.S._... "However during that period, the Obama Administration did count all military-age males in strike zones as combatants unless explicit intelligence exonerated them posthumously." Obama's policy: kill them first, find out if they were enemy combatants - or not - afterwards.
      - boomboomsubban 6y ago
        That is reporting on the same Times source my link referenced, which doesn't actually say Obama started the practice.
        somesortofsystm 6y ago
        Says it right here: "A phalanx of retired generals and admirals stood behind Mr. Obama on the second day of his presidency, providing martial cover as he signed several executive orders to make good on campaign pledges. Brutal interrogation techniques were banned, he declared. And the prison at Guantánamo Bay would be closed. What the new president did not say was that the orders contained a few subtle loopholes. " And indeed, the loophole was, Obama changed the definition of enemy combatant to mean 'if its a military aged male in the drone crosshairs, its a combatant (EKIA) - until proven otherwise'. i.e. the exact opposite of 'innocent until proven guilty'. I suggest you catch up by reading "The Drone Papers", in case you haven't already: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_Papers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_Papers https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/the-assassination-complex/ https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/the-assassination-comp... Pay particular attention to the definition of the term "EKIA". https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/manhunting-in-the-hindu-kush/ https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/manhunting-in-the-hind... This happened under Obama's watch. https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/opinion/2012-05-29/analysis-obama-embraced-redefinition-of-civilian-in-drone-wars https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/opinion/2012-05-29/ana...

boomboomsubban 6y ago

The official civilian casualty numbers have always been pure bullshit, we know from the Manning leaks that Bush had hidden 15,000 civilian deaths in Iraq. Obamas change did not drastically alter how the deaths were reported.

somesortofsystm 6y ago
Actually, they did. Obama started counting everyone in the drone sights as enemy combatants. They were bullshit reports before Obama. They became even more bullshit during Obama. And the bullshit is out of control now.
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  Both numbers are made up, but do you have any source showing Obama started the military age male policy? All I can find is a government source agent said he "embraced it" in regard to drone strikes while the practice was used in several other areas during the Bush administration, such as who could face "enhanced interrogation." Further, some of the earlier sources I found retracted the statement to clarify that Obama embraced the Bush designation. https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/opinion/2012-05-29/analysis-obama-embraced-redefinition-of-civilian-in-drone-wars https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/opinion/2012-05-29/ana...
  - somesortofsystm 6y ago
    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/under-obama-men-killed-by-drones-are-presumed-to-be-terrorists/257749/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/under-o... From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_from_U.S._drone_strikes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_from_U.S._... "However during that period, the Obama Administration did count all military-age males in strike zones as combatants unless explicit intelligence exonerated them posthumously." Obama's policy: kill them first, find out if they were enemy combatants - or not - afterwards.
    - boomboomsubban 6y ago
      That is reporting on the same Times source my link referenced, which doesn't actually say Obama started the practice.
      - somesortofsystm 6y ago
        Says it right here: "A phalanx of retired generals and admirals stood behind Mr. Obama on the second day of his presidency, providing martial cover as he signed several executive orders to make good on campaign pledges. Brutal interrogation techniques were banned, he declared. And the prison at Guantánamo Bay would be closed. What the new president did not say was that the orders contained a few subtle loopholes. " And indeed, the loophole was, Obama changed the definition of enemy combatant to mean 'if its a military aged male in the drone crosshairs, its a combatant (EKIA) - until proven otherwise'. i.e. the exact opposite of 'innocent until proven guilty'. I suggest you catch up by reading "The Drone Papers", in case you haven't already: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_Papers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_Papers https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/the-assassination-complex/ https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/the-assassination-comp... Pay particular attention to the definition of the term "EKIA". https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/manhunting-in-the-hindu-kush/ https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/manhunting-in-the-hind... This happened under Obama's watch. https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/opinion/2012-05-29/analysis-obama-embraced-redefinition-of-civilian-in-drone-wars https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/opinion/2012-05-29/ana...