5 ms·

The real question to me is whether FaceBook and Google are _deliberately_ complicit in creating devisive bubbles through recommendation systems or whether that’

by harryf 6y ago

The real question to me is whether FaceBook and Google are _deliberately_ complicit in creating devisive bubbles through recommendation systems or whether that’s just an unfortunate byproduct that’s unfixable? In Taiwan they have social media designed to reward agreement - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/27/taiwan-civic-hackers-polis-consensus-social-media-platform https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/27/taiwan-civic-h... - whether it’s truly successful or not I can’t say but if so, then Facebook and Google could adapt

im3w1l 6y ago
It's not that people want to create division. But the left becomes upset with your product if you show them rightwing opinions, so if you want to have rightwing content you have to make bubbles so they don't see it. This is what I have seen professionally. Edited a bit.
- Apotheos 6y ago
  That seems a little simplified, specifically just categorizing it as left wing vs right wing. If I recall from my Sociology studies, smaller minority opinions (in this case what you call "right wing ideas") coalesce into smaller silo'd communities BECAUSE their ideas do not resonate with any majority. In a wide open environment, the minority ideas / culture would not survive, so the participants of the minority views shrink the environment into the bubbles so their ideas don't have as much competition.
  - im3w1l 6y ago
    > In a wide open environment, the minority ideas / culture would not survive, so the participants of the minority views shrink the environment into the bubbles so their ideas don't have as much competition. How does that square with the commonly accepted observation that "any community without moderation turns into a 4chan cesspool".
- criley2 6y ago
  >It's not that people want to create division. But the left becomes upset with your product if you show them rightwing opinions, so if you want to have rightwing content you have to make bubbles so they don't see it. It's funny, but it's actually the opposite. The right wing folks using Facebook become so incensed and outraged at being shown left wing content that they complain all the way to Congress, and the radical right-wing politicians who are slaves to the whims of the populist movement then haul social media executives in front of Congress and literally pepper them with ignorant conspiracy theories. Facebook has notably had to wine and dine famous radical conservatives for years to prevent negative press, something they never have to do with the left. Facebook notably even created "Conservative-only" high level level positions to ensure that their entitled right-wing users were placated. They added outright propaganda outlets to their "Fact Checking Initiative" not based on any objective metric, but on the political calculus of "Both-sides-ism -- we'll put your fact checker next to this liar, both sides get a spot at the table". When you look at the radical right-wing populist movement, the search for Parler and more right-wing safe spaces, and how they use their fact-free media and conspiracy theory-friendly politicians to push truly ridiculous nonsense, I think you can see the full picture of a quickly-radicalizing right wing populist base that becomes incensed and even violent when viewing left-wing or moderate/centrist content. Remember, this is an America where Fox News is currently being abandoned for being "part of the Left", and there are millions who are abandoning Facebook and Fox News for Parler and OANN, so you have to see this as the radical right actively seeking out and creating ever more ideologically pure safe spaces.
rossdavidh 6y ago
"Never ascribe to conspiracy, that which is adequately explained by incompetence."
- colordrops 6y ago
  Aphorisms such as these are loved by the think tanks orchestrating these conspiracies.
  - aiisjustanif 6y ago
    This comment section feels like Reddit. shiver
wayne_skylar 6y ago
I don't think it was deliberate. But after they realized it's a problem, they also realized that it's the best way to drive engagement so they do nothing.
- mywittyname 6y ago
  It's like an obese person struggling with a diet. I'm sure most of their employees don't want their products to be used to sow discontent. But that sweet, sweet paycheck is so large that it's too difficult to quit. I'm guessing most of them rationalize it in some way, or figure that they will be on a plane to New Zealand before the effects of this is really felt.

by harryf 6y ago

im3w1l 6y ago

It's not that people want to create division. But the left becomes upset with your product if you show them rightwing opinions, so if you want to have rightwing content you have to make bubbles so they don't see it. This is what I have seen professionally. Edited a bit.

Apotheos 6y ago
That seems a little simplified, specifically just categorizing it as left wing vs right wing. If I recall from my Sociology studies, smaller minority opinions (in this case what you call "right wing ideas") coalesce into smaller silo'd communities BECAUSE their ideas do not resonate with any majority. In a wide open environment, the minority ideas / culture would not survive, so the participants of the minority views shrink the environment into the bubbles so their ideas don't have as much competition.
- im3w1l 6y ago
  > In a wide open environment, the minority ideas / culture would not survive, so the participants of the minority views shrink the environment into the bubbles so their ideas don't have as much competition. How does that square with the commonly accepted observation that "any community without moderation turns into a 4chan cesspool".
criley2 6y ago
>It's not that people want to create division. But the left becomes upset with your product if you show them rightwing opinions, so if you want to have rightwing content you have to make bubbles so they don't see it. It's funny, but it's actually the opposite. The right wing folks using Facebook become so incensed and outraged at being shown left wing content that they complain all the way to Congress, and the radical right-wing politicians who are slaves to the whims of the populist movement then haul social media executives in front of Congress and literally pepper them with ignorant conspiracy theories. Facebook has notably had to wine and dine famous radical conservatives for years to prevent negative press, something they never have to do with the left. Facebook notably even created "Conservative-only" high level level positions to ensure that their entitled right-wing users were placated. They added outright propaganda outlets to their "Fact Checking Initiative" not based on any objective metric, but on the political calculus of "Both-sides-ism -- we'll put your fact checker next to this liar, both sides get a spot at the table". When you look at the radical right-wing populist movement, the search for Parler and more right-wing safe spaces, and how they use their fact-free media and conspiracy theory-friendly politicians to push truly ridiculous nonsense, I think you can see the full picture of a quickly-radicalizing right wing populist base that becomes incensed and even violent when viewing left-wing or moderate/centrist content. Remember, this is an America where Fox News is currently being abandoned for being "part of the Left", and there are millions who are abandoning Facebook and Fox News for Parler and OANN, so you have to see this as the radical right actively seeking out and creating ever more ideologically pure safe spaces.

rossdavidh 6y ago

"Never ascribe to conspiracy, that which is adequately explained by incompetence."

colordrops 6y ago
Aphorisms such as these are loved by the think tanks orchestrating these conspiracies.
- aiisjustanif 6y ago
  This comment section feels like Reddit. shiver

wayne_skylar 6y ago

I don't think it was deliberate. But after they realized it's a problem, they also realized that it's the best way to drive engagement so they do nothing.

mywittyname 6y ago
It's like an obese person struggling with a diet. I'm sure most of their employees don't want their products to be used to sow discontent. But that sweet, sweet paycheck is so large that it's too difficult to quit. I'm guessing most of them rationalize it in some way, or figure that they will be on a plane to New Zealand before the effects of this is really felt.