4 ms·

Yeah, but you’re usually only hyperinsulinemic if you’re obese or diabetic. Calories-in, calories out works perfectly for everybody else (including obese people

Yeah, but you’re usually only hyperinsulinemic if you’re obese or diabetic. Calories-in, calories out works perfectly for everybody else (including obese people before they get obese). Willpower certainly is the problem for most people.

inglor_cz 6y ago
"you’re usually only hyperinsulinemic if you’re obese or diabetic." Is that true or just an artifact of screening? Hyperinsulinemia is not really well researched in "normal" population, because measurement of insulin in blood is not trivial; there are no simple devices similar to glucometers that could easily and affordably measure your current insulin level. Eating a modern diet laced with hidden sugar is a surefire way to increase your total insulin level. It is not as if a healthy pancreas has a choice. It automatically releases insulin as a response to certain stimuli, including sugar, but also interestingly protein. Only pure fat is "invisible" to pancreas AFAIK.
inglor_cz 6y ago
"Willpower certainly is the problem for most people. " Why was this not a problem prior to 1980? It is not as if we switched from hunter and gatherer society straight into postmodern world in 1980. People back then drove cars and ate in restaurants, and look at the photos: they looked far healthier. The fattest US state of 1980 was still much less fat than the fittest US state of 2020. Why the same people who have a willpower problem can tolerate their bratty teenagers, rise up at 5 am to go to work, pull through arduous work etc.? After all, you would expect them to lack willpower generally, not in just one specific domain. Humans are the same as they were. What changed is the amount of processed food and especially sugar in our diets. A lot.
- watwut 6y ago
  > People back then drove cars and ate in restaurants, and look at the photos: they looked far healthier. They looked thinner, but afaik we are healthier all in all. Thin and healthy are not synonyms.
  - inglor_cz 6y ago
    We got much better in managing chronic diseases, and we smoke a lot less. So far, so good. But diabetes 2nd type or chronic non-alcoholic steatosis were much, much rarer than today in < 50 population. Orders of magnitude rarer. This is a significant disease load.
- snowwrestler 6y ago
  People are less active today than in 1980. They work, and recreate, sitting still in front of a screen far more than people did in 1980. Even in professional jobs there was more walking around because there was no email, chat, etc. People take in more calories today than in 1980, primarily through prepared foods. The guy in this blog post said he eats out for every meal. Basically no one but the super rich did that in 1980. Prepared food prices have fallen a lot since 1980. Calories in/calories out is the only way that the human body can change mass, short of excision. However, it’s very hard to accurately keep track of calories.
  - inglor_cz 6y ago
    There are some chicken-and-egg problems buried in there. Are people more fat today because they are less active, or are they less active because they are fatter? After all, it is no joy to move around with 30 or 50 lbs of extra fat. There seems to be a vicious cycle at work. "Calories in/calories out is the only way that the human body can change mass" True, but unproductive when it comes to understanding the phenomenon of rising obesity. WHY people consume more calories? What drives them? This is not a trivial question and without being fairly sure about the answer, we will not solve the situation. An analogy: the only way that humans become alcoholics is by drinking a lot of alcohol. But that does not explain root causes of alcoholism, it is only a relatively trivial observation of the proximate cause. The reasons why some people can't keep their alcohol intake within harmless amounts and slide all the way to the bottom are anything but trivial.
watwut 6y ago
> Calories-in, calories out works perfectly for everybody else (including obese people before they get obese). [...] Willpower certainly is the problem for most people. It just does not. If you focus on that only, it leads to diet that makes you feel like crap all the time. It makes you low energy, so you struggle or flat cant maintain performance and precision in work. It makes you irritable and it makes it much harder for you to handle normal stresses - meaning your kids and wife and coworkers basically suffer. And what it does is that people eventually decide it is not worth it.

inglor_cz 6y ago

"you’re usually only hyperinsulinemic if you’re obese or diabetic." Is that true or just an artifact of screening? Hyperinsulinemia is not really well researched in "normal" population, because measurement of insulin in blood is not trivial; there are no simple devices similar to glucometers that could easily and affordably measure your current insulin level. Eating a modern diet laced with hidden sugar is a surefire way to increase your total insulin level. It is not as if a healthy pancreas has a choice. It automatically releases insulin as a response to certain stimuli, including sugar, but also interestingly protein. Only pure fat is "invisible" to pancreas AFAIK.

inglor_cz 6y ago

"Willpower certainly is the problem for most people. " Why was this not a problem prior to 1980? It is not as if we switched from hunter and gatherer society straight into postmodern world in 1980. People back then drove cars and ate in restaurants, and look at the photos: they looked far healthier. The fattest US state of 1980 was still much less fat than the fittest US state of 2020. Why the same people who have a willpower problem can tolerate their bratty teenagers, rise up at 5 am to go to work, pull through arduous work etc.? After all, you would expect them to lack willpower generally, not in just one specific domain. Humans are the same as they were. What changed is the amount of processed food and especially sugar in our diets. A lot.

watwut 6y ago
> People back then drove cars and ate in restaurants, and look at the photos: they looked far healthier. They looked thinner, but afaik we are healthier all in all. Thin and healthy are not synonyms.
- inglor_cz 6y ago
  We got much better in managing chronic diseases, and we smoke a lot less. So far, so good. But diabetes 2nd type or chronic non-alcoholic steatosis were much, much rarer than today in < 50 population. Orders of magnitude rarer. This is a significant disease load.
snowwrestler 6y ago
People are less active today than in 1980. They work, and recreate, sitting still in front of a screen far more than people did in 1980. Even in professional jobs there was more walking around because there was no email, chat, etc. People take in more calories today than in 1980, primarily through prepared foods. The guy in this blog post said he eats out for every meal. Basically no one but the super rich did that in 1980. Prepared food prices have fallen a lot since 1980. Calories in/calories out is the only way that the human body can change mass, short of excision. However, it’s very hard to accurately keep track of calories.
- inglor_cz 6y ago
  There are some chicken-and-egg problems buried in there. Are people more fat today because they are less active, or are they less active because they are fatter? After all, it is no joy to move around with 30 or 50 lbs of extra fat. There seems to be a vicious cycle at work. "Calories in/calories out is the only way that the human body can change mass" True, but unproductive when it comes to understanding the phenomenon of rising obesity. WHY people consume more calories? What drives them? This is not a trivial question and without being fairly sure about the answer, we will not solve the situation. An analogy: the only way that humans become alcoholics is by drinking a lot of alcohol. But that does not explain root causes of alcoholism, it is only a relatively trivial observation of the proximate cause. The reasons why some people can't keep their alcohol intake within harmless amounts and slide all the way to the bottom are anything but trivial.

watwut 6y ago

> Calories-in, calories out works perfectly for everybody else (including obese people before they get obese). [...] Willpower certainly is the problem for most people. It just does not. If you focus on that only, it leads to diet that makes you feel like crap all the time. It makes you low energy, so you struggle or flat cant maintain performance and precision in work. It makes you irritable and it makes it much harder for you to handle normal stresses - meaning your kids and wife and coworkers basically suffer. And what it does is that people eventually decide it is not worth it.