4 ms·

> Okay, but offering no machine suitable for developers You mean... software developers? The same people who almost universally use a Mac?

ohgodplsno 6y ago
>The same people who almost universally use a Mac? * in very specific places and conditions. Actual numbers from every single credible survey puts macs at a grand maximum of 25%.
- ericmay 6y ago
  Well, most corporations don't give developers a choice in what computer they use. I doubt that makes them unsuitable.
  - freeone3000 6y ago
    Macs keep dropping off our domain, so there's no real way to maintain their provisioned state.
Plasmoid2000ad 6y ago
There's a massive US centric bubble when it comes to Apple. iPhones and Macbooks are not in the majority, let alone universal, with software developers as whole, just in pockets
- ericmay 6y ago
  Sure - so now they're unsuitable for developers?
- ampdepolymerase 6y ago
  The five dollar latte crowd is willing to pay and consume. Walk into any café and good luck finding non-Apple machines. (Occasionally there will be a Surface or two, especially if you live in Seattle).
  - rini17 6y ago
    They are most visible but that does not mean they are most important part of ecosystem. Plus, in 5 years they will be reconsidering workplace setup due to back pain and/or carpal. And Apple asks arm and leg for all ergonomic accessories like external monitor and dock.
    - ericmay 6y ago
      You just... buy from someone else? You don't have to buy an external monitor or a dock from Apple.
    - war1025 6y ago
      > Plus, in 5 years they will be reconsidering workplace setup due to back pain and/or carpal. This is where I'm at. I don't know if other people are built from sturdier stuff than me or what, but typing on a laptop to any significant extent leaves me with tendonitis for several days. And staring at a laptop screen too long leaves me with neck pain. Laptops are a nightmare in terms of ergonomics. It's been a bit of a blessing for me because I only have a laptop at home, and it basically means I can't take work home with me. But I'm pretty seriously considering upgrading to a traditional desktop sometime in the next year.
      - MockObject 6y ago
        Laptops are my ergonomic savior. I make sure it's on my lap, and that my elbows are on softly padded armrests and hang down gently, and this has given me decades of work after fierce carpal tunnel inflammation. I also use a Wacom tablet comfortably placed on a table to my right.
ehvatum 6y ago
> The same people who almost universally use a Mac? This has become steadily less true since about 2012, in my experience. I don’t know any full time developers still using an Apple laptop. The keyboard situation caused a lot of attrition. I finally stopped support for all Apple hardware at my company months ago, simply to get it out my headspace. Will Fusion360 again be completely broken by an Apple OS update? Am I going to have to invest time making our Qt and PyQt applications work, yet again, after an Apple update? Are Apple filesystem snapshots yet again going to prove totally defective? The answer is “no”, because we really need to focus on filling customer orders, do we’re done with Apple. ZFS snapshots function correctly. HP laptop keyboards work ok. Arch Linux and Windows 10 (with shutup10 and mass updates a few times per year) get the job done without getting in my face every god damned day.
- ericmay 6y ago
  > I don’t know any full time developers still using an Apple laptop. Fascinating. I can name a few startups in my town that use Apple. One just IPO'd (Root), another is about to (Upstart). There are others as well. The big companies it's hit or miss. Depends on if they are working on big enterprise applications or mobile/web. Mobile and web teams are all on MacBook Pros, and the big app dev teams aren't. When I was last in Mountain View they were on Mac as well but I know that depends on personal preference.
postalrat 6y ago
I use a mac because other developers do in my office. But I'd be just as productive on a linux or windows machine. For a while osx had the edge because it had a nice interface while still offering a lot of unix. Now windows and linux has caught up in the areas they were lacking before. Meanwhile apple has been caring less and less about people using the cli.

ohgodplsno 6y ago

>The same people who almost universally use a Mac? * in very specific places and conditions. Actual numbers from every single credible survey puts macs at a grand maximum of 25%.

ericmay 6y ago
Well, most corporations don't give developers a choice in what computer they use. I doubt that makes them unsuitable.
- freeone3000 6y ago
  Macs keep dropping off our domain, so there's no real way to maintain their provisioned state.

Plasmoid2000ad 6y ago

There's a massive US centric bubble when it comes to Apple. iPhones and Macbooks are not in the majority, let alone universal, with software developers as whole, just in pockets

ericmay 6y ago
Sure - so now they're unsuitable for developers?
ampdepolymerase 6y ago
The five dollar latte crowd is willing to pay and consume. Walk into any café and good luck finding non-Apple machines. (Occasionally there will be a Surface or two, especially if you live in Seattle).
- rini17 6y ago
  They are most visible but that does not mean they are most important part of ecosystem. Plus, in 5 years they will be reconsidering workplace setup due to back pain and/or carpal. And Apple asks arm and leg for all ergonomic accessories like external monitor and dock.
  - ericmay 6y ago
    You just... buy from someone else? You don't have to buy an external monitor or a dock from Apple.
  - war1025 6y ago
    > Plus, in 5 years they will be reconsidering workplace setup due to back pain and/or carpal. This is where I'm at. I don't know if other people are built from sturdier stuff than me or what, but typing on a laptop to any significant extent leaves me with tendonitis for several days. And staring at a laptop screen too long leaves me with neck pain. Laptops are a nightmare in terms of ergonomics. It's been a bit of a blessing for me because I only have a laptop at home, and it basically means I can't take work home with me. But I'm pretty seriously considering upgrading to a traditional desktop sometime in the next year.
    - MockObject 6y ago
      Laptops are my ergonomic savior. I make sure it's on my lap, and that my elbows are on softly padded armrests and hang down gently, and this has given me decades of work after fierce carpal tunnel inflammation. I also use a Wacom tablet comfortably placed on a table to my right.

ehvatum 6y ago

> The same people who almost universally use a Mac? This has become steadily less true since about 2012, in my experience. I don’t know any full time developers still using an Apple laptop. The keyboard situation caused a lot of attrition. I finally stopped support for all Apple hardware at my company months ago, simply to get it out my headspace. Will Fusion360 again be completely broken by an Apple OS update? Am I going to have to invest time making our Qt and PyQt applications work, yet again, after an Apple update? Are Apple filesystem snapshots yet again going to prove totally defective? The answer is “no”, because we really need to focus on filling customer orders, do we’re done with Apple. ZFS snapshots function correctly. HP laptop keyboards work ok. Arch Linux and Windows 10 (with shutup10 and mass updates a few times per year) get the job done without getting in my face every god damned day.

ericmay 6y ago
> I don’t know any full time developers still using an Apple laptop. Fascinating. I can name a few startups in my town that use Apple. One just IPO'd (Root), another is about to (Upstart). There are others as well. The big companies it's hit or miss. Depends on if they are working on big enterprise applications or mobile/web. Mobile and web teams are all on MacBook Pros, and the big app dev teams aren't. When I was last in Mountain View they were on Mac as well but I know that depends on personal preference.

postalrat 6y ago

I use a mac because other developers do in my office. But I'd be just as productive on a linux or windows machine. For a while osx had the edge because it had a nice interface while still offering a lot of unix. Now windows and linux has caught up in the areas they were lacking before. Meanwhile apple has been caring less and less about people using the cli.