3 ms·

Is this any more unethical than ordering a #6 combo at McDonald's and not eating the fries... just because you calculated that for some reason the drink + sandw

by tibbon 16y ago

Is this any more unethical than ordering a #6 combo at McDonald's and not eating the fries... just because you calculated that for some reason the drink + sandwich cost more than the #6? Even if McDonald's put in big bold letter, "You must eat everything you order or else"? I don't see why you are obliged to use more of the service than you want to. If I buy a train ticket from DC-Boston and hop off in NYC, no one's going to care. Airlines get special treatment? What if I had left a bag on the train? There seems to be some issue with leaving it on a plane and losing it. As long as I'm not a terrorist (which I'm not) and they have screened my bags, I don't see the issue. On the flip side, the airline doesn't really care if they lost your bag and don't know where it is. The bag not being tied to you does not put a bomb in it. Plus, people travel on planes that their bags aren't on all the time and we have no indicator that people doing bad things are more likely to want to be off the plane than on it.

tptacek 16y ago
It is the same kind of "unethical" as deliberately buying and throwing away food; it's just a large difference of degree. Incidentally, note that the same airline pricing quirk you'd be exploiting to save ~$100 is also costing other people on the plane; it's not quite a zero sum game, but has some of the same dynamics, as prices rise with occupancy on planes.
- tibbon 16y ago
  Wouldn't the real solution however be for the airlines to introduce pricing that didn't take an entire company of smart people (ITA) to understand?
  - tptacek 16y ago
    No, because ethically, not liking the way somebody prices a good or service doesn't give you a free pass to abuse other consumers of those goods or services. If you believe obtaining the best possible price for a service by inconveniencing other consumers is ethical, I can save us a protracted and boring argument by stipulating that there is then nothing unethical about hidden-city itineraries. But if you don't think that, then let me warn you that the instinct to fob off responsibility for people's actions to the big faceless corporation is natural and understandable, but also very hazardous to your moral health.
    - tibbon 16y ago
      I'm still not sure why it's a big deal if I get off a plane at a stop, but getting off a train isn't a big deal. They could always allow some way for you to inform them, "I'm leaving, don't wait for me." (or simply you could just go to that gate and tell them. That way they aren't holding the plane, and no one else is at a loss. You don't inconvenience anyone else, except maybe a few confused people working at the gate. None of this still solves the issue that airlines don't have transparent pricing. If restaurants acted like airlines, you'd have people in the same place paying anywhere from $5 to $200 for the same meal, and you'd be unsure of one day to the next how much they'll be charging. You could even pay for your meal upfront, only to find that they 'oversold' the meals and you'll have to go hungry. If you want to talk about unethical, let's talk about inconveniencing customers by overselling flights.
      - euroclydon 16y ago
        It's a big deal because you are signaling your intention to to fly to destination C, not B, when in fact your hidden intention is only to go to B. This is called lying. Try telling them the truth, either by buying the single A->B flight or by telling the check-in clerk that you have no intention of flying to C, and you won't get the good price and may get banned from the airline.
        tibbon 16y ago
        Again, for some reason no other form of transit seems to really care. Even if you tell them about it. What other businesses do this (really strange) practice? I can buy the entire Microsoft Office and only use Excel and Microsoft doesn't care. Take a cruise somewhere, stop along the way and you think to stay there for good? They don't care. Take a Greyhound bus somewhere and stay in the Arby's too long? They don't care if you want to stay in that random town. Take a train somewhere, and they certainly won't care where you get off. Buy a commuter rail pass that will get you to Worchester from Boston, tell the attendant that you're going to Worchester and then get off in Newton... they don't care. And you know when the airline doesn't care? When you buy the ticket and don't show up at all. They'll happily take your cash, but it seems they don't want to take you halfwhere there.

by tibbon 16y ago

tptacek 16y ago

It is the same kind of "unethical" as deliberately buying and throwing away food; it's just a large difference of degree. Incidentally, note that the same airline pricing quirk you'd be exploiting to save ~$100 is also costing other people on the plane; it's not quite a zero sum game, but has some of the same dynamics, as prices rise with occupancy on planes.

tibbon 16y ago
Wouldn't the real solution however be for the airlines to introduce pricing that didn't take an entire company of smart people (ITA) to understand?
- tptacek 16y ago
  No, because ethically, not liking the way somebody prices a good or service doesn't give you a free pass to abuse other consumers of those goods or services. If you believe obtaining the best possible price for a service by inconveniencing other consumers is ethical, I can save us a protracted and boring argument by stipulating that there is then nothing unethical about hidden-city itineraries. But if you don't think that, then let me warn you that the instinct to fob off responsibility for people's actions to the big faceless corporation is natural and understandable, but also very hazardous to your moral health.
  - tibbon 16y ago
    I'm still not sure why it's a big deal if I get off a plane at a stop, but getting off a train isn't a big deal. They could always allow some way for you to inform them, "I'm leaving, don't wait for me." (or simply you could just go to that gate and tell them. That way they aren't holding the plane, and no one else is at a loss. You don't inconvenience anyone else, except maybe a few confused people working at the gate. None of this still solves the issue that airlines don't have transparent pricing. If restaurants acted like airlines, you'd have people in the same place paying anywhere from $5 to $200 for the same meal, and you'd be unsure of one day to the next how much they'll be charging. You could even pay for your meal upfront, only to find that they 'oversold' the meals and you'll have to go hungry. If you want to talk about unethical, let's talk about inconveniencing customers by overselling flights.
    - euroclydon 16y ago
      It's a big deal because you are signaling your intention to to fly to destination C, not B, when in fact your hidden intention is only to go to B. This is called lying. Try telling them the truth, either by buying the single A->B flight or by telling the check-in clerk that you have no intention of flying to C, and you won't get the good price and may get banned from the airline.
      - tibbon 16y ago
        Again, for some reason no other form of transit seems to really care. Even if you tell them about it. What other businesses do this (really strange) practice? I can buy the entire Microsoft Office and only use Excel and Microsoft doesn't care. Take a cruise somewhere, stop along the way and you think to stay there for good? They don't care. Take a Greyhound bus somewhere and stay in the Arby's too long? They don't care if you want to stay in that random town. Take a train somewhere, and they certainly won't care where you get off. Buy a commuter rail pass that will get you to Worchester from Boston, tell the attendant that you're going to Worchester and then get off in Newton... they don't care. And you know when the airline doesn't care? When you buy the ticket and don't show up at all. They'll happily take your cash, but it seems they don't want to take you halfwhere there.