10 ms·

Freedom of press is not the same as unbiased press. For example, US citizens can watch Chinese news media in the US, but Chinese people cannot watch US news in

by enaaem 6y ago

Freedom of press is not the same as unbiased press. For example, US citizens can watch Chinese news media in the US, but Chinese people cannot watch US news in China.

yorwba 6y ago
> US citizens can watch Chinese news media in the US They could, but they don't, because they wouldn't understand a thing. So in practice, I think the situation is reversed: there are more people in China who watch US news than people in the US who watch Chinese news.
- labster 6y ago
  I know quite a few people in the U.S. who watch RT, a Russian state-controlled media operation. The pivot from backing the left fringe to the Trumpist right has been quite interesting. Not affiliated with the bug tracker RT, in case you were wondering.
  - chupasaurus 6y ago
    Russia Today was created as a child company of RIA Novosti. RIA Novosti itself was created as Sovinformbureau in July 1941 so the propaganda is in it's core.
  - secondcoming 6y ago
    Jeremy Corbyn, the former leader of the UK's far-left Labour party was quite a fan of Russia Today.
    - ben_w 6y ago
      Please, the Labour Party is centre-left not far-left by U.K. standards. Corbyn himself is far-left (again by U.K. standards), but the Parliamentary Labour Party itself gave him 172-40 against in a vote of no confidence in 2016, only for the public members to vote for him 313,209-193,229 in the subsequent leadership contest. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Labour_Party_leadership_election_(UK) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Labour_Party_leadership...
      - spaetzleesser 6y ago
        When you watch FoxNews they call everything that’s not in line with them “far left”. It’s a cool trick to mark anybody only slightly left from them as extremist. And judging from conversations with FoxNews viewers it works like a charm.
        ceejayoz 6y ago
        A tactic that's backfiring on them now, as they get accused by the President of "pandering to the left". https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/11/trump-nuclear-against-fox-news-election-coverage https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/11/trump-nuclear-agains...
        spaetzleesser 6y ago
        Allying with Trump is a dangerous path because his only ideology is himself.
        mistermann 6y ago
        A similar phenomenon is the mainstream media (and its believers) with the term "conspiracy theory".
        wizzwizz4 6y ago
        Cory Doctorow's written a lot about conspiracy theories. Or you could look at https://www.everythingisaremix.info/ https://www.everythingisaremix.info/.
        mistermann 6y ago
        "CONSTANTLY WRONG: THE CASE AGAINST CONSPIRACY THEORIES" This seems like a less than promising title for those of us who are interested in what is objectively true. A quick skim of the first three strawman-filled minutes of the video does not make me feel any better. It's true, one can indeed find plenty of batshit insane ideas within the conspiracy world. Similarly, one can find plenty of dark-complexioned people engaged in fisticuffs on /r/fightporn. What speculative conclusions one should form based on these two facts is a matter of opinion.
- T-A 6y ago
  These seem fairly comprehensible: https://www.cgtn.com https://www.cgtn.com https://english.cctv.com https://english.cctv.com http://en.cncnews.cn http://en.cncnews.cn
  - yorwba 6y ago
    Their US equivalents would be https://www.rfa.org/mandarin/ https://www.rfa.org/mandarin/ https://www.voachinese.com/ https://www.voachinese.com/ Those are government-sponsored, explicitly foreign-facing (the language is a big hint) mouthpieces that are about as representative of "US news" as the sites you link are representative of "Chinese news" (i.e. barely).
    - enaaem 6y ago
      All those sites are blocked in China. Even hackersnews is blocked. Check: http://www.chinafirewalltest.com http://www.chinafirewalltest.com
      - acqq 6y ago
        Sure, the web sites are blocked, but radio waves couldn't be. And traditionally there were always enough radio stations carefully built and sufficiently financed to cover the target areas. RFA: https://www.rfa.org/about/info/frequencies.html https://www.rfa.org/about/info/frequencies.html VOA: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.voachinese.com/p/5869.html https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https... A nice example of what one U.S. journalist knew regarding the coverage of North Korea in 2013: https://www.northkoreatech.org/2013/04/11/us-wants-voa-rfa-transmitter-in-south-korea/ https://www.northkoreatech.org/2013/04/11/us-wants-voa-rfa-t...
      - yorwba 6y ago
        I know, just like https://cn.ft.com/ https://cn.ft.com/ and https://cn.nytimes.com/ https://cn.nytimes.com/ (which are more likely to be worth reading, although not at the same level as the English originals), but the blocks can be circumvented by sufficiently motivated individuals. And I think there are more of those in China than there are sufficiently motivated individuals in the US circumventing the language barrier to read https://www.caixin.com/ https://www.caixin.com/ or any of the magazines published by http://boyamedia.com/ http://boyamedia.com/ . (Of course those aren't representative of "Chinese news" either, most of which probably consists of clickbait blogspam.)
throwaway4good 6y ago
I betcha there are more people in China who watch CNN, Fox News etc. than there are people in America who watch CGTN etc. It is trivial for the US to allow foreign media on US grounds if noone watches it. If the foreign media becomes popular, the pipe will soon play a different tune. Case in point: TikTok.
- scoot_718 6y ago
  There is no independent media in China, your comparison is invalid. They can cry all they want about it - it's their own fault.
  - yorwba 6y ago
    If there's no independent media in China, how do you explain that a Chinese magazine's interview with Dr. Ai Fen was censored on social media? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/11/coronavirus-wuhan-doctor-ai-fen-speaks-out-against-authorities https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/11/coronavirus-wu... Surely if they're not independent they'd just not have published it in the first place.
    - 50or05 6y ago
      Different outlets are controlled by different people some are more loyal to Xi, but ultimately none of them can go wild. Even in this case the news have been removed quickly and Dr. Ai Fen disappeared as well: https://rsf.org/en/news/whistleblowing-doctor-missing-after-criticizing-beijings-coronavirus-censorship https://rsf.org/en/news/whistleblowing-doctor-missing-after-...
      - yorwba 6y ago
        > Different outlets are controlled by different people some are more loyal to Xi, but ultimately none of them can go wild. This is how "independent media" work in most countries that have such a thing: different outlets are controlled by different people, resulting in some diversity of opinion, but not every idea gets the same airtime. Of course the definition of "going wild" is different in a Chinese context. Also, from the article you linked: > 04/13/2020 UPDATE RSF has taken note of the video published on the Weibo account of the whistleblower Ai Fen, which suggests that she is free to move, and hopes that it was not staged by the Chinese regime.
kome 6y ago
i'm pretty sure the contrary is true.

by enaaem 6y ago

Freedom of press is not the same as unbiased press. For example, US citizens can watch Chinese news media in the US, but Chinese people cannot watch US news in China.

yorwba 6y ago

> US citizens can watch Chinese news media in the US They could, but they don't, because they wouldn't understand a thing. So in practice, I think the situation is reversed: there are more people in China who watch US news than people in the US who watch Chinese news.

labster 6y ago
I know quite a few people in the U.S. who watch RT, a Russian state-controlled media operation. The pivot from backing the left fringe to the Trumpist right has been quite interesting. Not affiliated with the bug tracker RT, in case you were wondering.
- chupasaurus 6y ago
  Russia Today was created as a child company of RIA Novosti. RIA Novosti itself was created as Sovinformbureau in July 1941 so the propaganda is in it's core.
- secondcoming 6y ago
  Jeremy Corbyn, the former leader of the UK's far-left Labour party was quite a fan of Russia Today.
  - ben_w 6y ago
    Please, the Labour Party is centre-left not far-left by U.K. standards. Corbyn himself is far-left (again by U.K. standards), but the Parliamentary Labour Party itself gave him 172-40 against in a vote of no confidence in 2016, only for the public members to vote for him 313,209-193,229 in the subsequent leadership contest. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Labour_Party_leadership_election_(UK) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Labour_Party_leadership...
    - spaetzleesser 6y ago
      When you watch FoxNews they call everything that’s not in line with them “far left”. It’s a cool trick to mark anybody only slightly left from them as extremist. And judging from conversations with FoxNews viewers it works like a charm.
      - ceejayoz 6y ago
        A tactic that's backfiring on them now, as they get accused by the President of "pandering to the left". https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/11/trump-nuclear-against-fox-news-election-coverage https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/11/trump-nuclear-agains...
        spaetzleesser 6y ago
        Allying with Trump is a dangerous path because his only ideology is himself.
      - mistermann 6y ago
        A similar phenomenon is the mainstream media (and its believers) with the term "conspiracy theory".
        wizzwizz4 6y ago
        Cory Doctorow's written a lot about conspiracy theories. Or you could look at https://www.everythingisaremix.info/ https://www.everythingisaremix.info/.
        mistermann 6y ago
        "CONSTANTLY WRONG: THE CASE AGAINST CONSPIRACY THEORIES" This seems like a less than promising title for those of us who are interested in what is objectively true. A quick skim of the first three strawman-filled minutes of the video does not make me feel any better. It's true, one can indeed find plenty of batshit insane ideas within the conspiracy world. Similarly, one can find plenty of dark-complexioned people engaged in fisticuffs on /r/fightporn. What speculative conclusions one should form based on these two facts is a matter of opinion.
T-A 6y ago
These seem fairly comprehensible: https://www.cgtn.com https://www.cgtn.com https://english.cctv.com https://english.cctv.com http://en.cncnews.cn http://en.cncnews.cn
- yorwba 6y ago
  Their US equivalents would be https://www.rfa.org/mandarin/ https://www.rfa.org/mandarin/ https://www.voachinese.com/ https://www.voachinese.com/ Those are government-sponsored, explicitly foreign-facing (the language is a big hint) mouthpieces that are about as representative of "US news" as the sites you link are representative of "Chinese news" (i.e. barely).
  - enaaem 6y ago
    All those sites are blocked in China. Even hackersnews is blocked. Check: http://www.chinafirewalltest.com http://www.chinafirewalltest.com
    - acqq 6y ago
      Sure, the web sites are blocked, but radio waves couldn't be. And traditionally there were always enough radio stations carefully built and sufficiently financed to cover the target areas. RFA: https://www.rfa.org/about/info/frequencies.html https://www.rfa.org/about/info/frequencies.html VOA: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.voachinese.com/p/5869.html https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https... A nice example of what one U.S. journalist knew regarding the coverage of North Korea in 2013: https://www.northkoreatech.org/2013/04/11/us-wants-voa-rfa-transmitter-in-south-korea/ https://www.northkoreatech.org/2013/04/11/us-wants-voa-rfa-t...
    - yorwba 6y ago
      I know, just like https://cn.ft.com/ https://cn.ft.com/ and https://cn.nytimes.com/ https://cn.nytimes.com/ (which are more likely to be worth reading, although not at the same level as the English originals), but the blocks can be circumvented by sufficiently motivated individuals. And I think there are more of those in China than there are sufficiently motivated individuals in the US circumventing the language barrier to read https://www.caixin.com/ https://www.caixin.com/ or any of the magazines published by http://boyamedia.com/ http://boyamedia.com/ . (Of course those aren't representative of "Chinese news" either, most of which probably consists of clickbait blogspam.)

throwaway4good 6y ago

I betcha there are more people in China who watch CNN, Fox News etc. than there are people in America who watch CGTN etc. It is trivial for the US to allow foreign media on US grounds if noone watches it. If the foreign media becomes popular, the pipe will soon play a different tune. Case in point: TikTok.

scoot_718 6y ago
There is no independent media in China, your comparison is invalid. They can cry all they want about it - it's their own fault.
- yorwba 6y ago
  If there's no independent media in China, how do you explain that a Chinese magazine's interview with Dr. Ai Fen was censored on social media? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/11/coronavirus-wuhan-doctor-ai-fen-speaks-out-against-authorities https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/11/coronavirus-wu... Surely if they're not independent they'd just not have published it in the first place.
  - 50or05 6y ago
    Different outlets are controlled by different people some are more loyal to Xi, but ultimately none of them can go wild. Even in this case the news have been removed quickly and Dr. Ai Fen disappeared as well: https://rsf.org/en/news/whistleblowing-doctor-missing-after-criticizing-beijings-coronavirus-censorship https://rsf.org/en/news/whistleblowing-doctor-missing-after-...
    - yorwba 6y ago
      > Different outlets are controlled by different people some are more loyal to Xi, but ultimately none of them can go wild. This is how "independent media" work in most countries that have such a thing: different outlets are controlled by different people, resulting in some diversity of opinion, but not every idea gets the same airtime. Of course the definition of "going wild" is different in a Chinese context. Also, from the article you linked: > 04/13/2020 UPDATE RSF has taken note of the video published on the Weibo account of the whistleblower Ai Fen, which suggests that she is free to move, and hopes that it was not staged by the Chinese regime.

kome 6y ago

i'm pretty sure the contrary is true.