3 ms·

The problem is that setting "performance" mode doesn't really recover the perf in the machine I tested. Building kernel's when the device is unplugged seems to

The problem is that setting "performance" mode doesn't really recover the perf in the machine I tested. Building kernel's when the device is unplugged seems to indicate its stuck in battery save mode despite the OS requesting a higher perf profile. Ugh, and certain OEMs (HP for one) don't let the user tweak these settings in the BIOS because they apparently want to charge people to change things like whether the laptop supports S3 mode (for linux). If one spends a bit of time reversing the bios, a lot of options show up that aren't accessible by default, including the precision boost options. I get HP/etc doesn't want random "leet" pc users messing with the power/thermal settings, but hiding them with alt-a/fn-f1/etc advanced menus probably took care of 99.9% of the support requests while leaving people with an out. Changing the password/key-combo on the recent machine is mostly incompetence, as is failing to follow the OS's performance requests (which is seemingly a large part of the problem here).

bayindirh 6y ago
Supporting more options generally need more engineering and test work, hence it drives prices up. These settings and multi-os compatibility is generally reserved for enterprise level devices (EliteBook, XPS/Precision, Thinkapd) where these options both will be used and result in more sales. From end-user perspective it's not nice but, it makes sense from a business perspective since most of the people doesn't care about their disposable laptops' Linux compatibility. "If it works, it works. If it doesn't, I'll buy a new one" they think.
- FeepingCreature 6y ago
  > "If it works, it works. If it doesn't, I'll buy a new one" they think. Nobody thinks that. Laptops are expensive. > From end-user perspective it's not nice but, it makes sense from a business perspective Lots of deplorable things make sense from a business perspective. That's a very low bar to clear. "Intel's actions aren't literally counterproductive to their short-term interests". Yes, and so? They're not literally motivated by spite for their users. Is that supposed to make it better?
  - bayindirh 6y ago
    > Nobody thinks that. Laptops are expensive. For people who know and buy what they need, they're indeed expensive but, some consumers see computers as consumable entities. They buy a machine, use it 2-3 years and buy a new one then. This is my experience at the least. On the contrary, I tend to use every device I own 7-10 years before replacing. > Lots of deplorable things make sense from a business perspective. That's a very low bar to clear. ... Is that supposed to make it better? Saying that doesn't mean I support business interests over legitimate user needs but, businesses are greedy entities which always want more money so, they always follow the path which brings more money. It doesn't make any better either. I want to be able to buy any laptop and/or device I want and change the software stack and tune it the way I wish however, as we see today, this freedom is attacked more and more. Unless consumer choice generates more profits (which is unlikely), we won't see that trend change much.
  - pmontra 6y ago
    > Laptops are expensive My non sw developer friends look for Windows laptops in the 300-400 Euro range. Things with flexible keyboards, maybe still 768p screens, a large HDD plus possibly a small SSD, 8 GB RAM, i3 or i5, a couple of USB ports, one HDMI. That's all they need. If I have to explain them why my laptop costs plus than 1000 more than that I only tell them that it's for work, every day all the time.
- StillBored 6y ago
  I don't buy that, sure they might actually have to test their device for conformance with the requisite standards. OTOH most of the far-eastern brands manage to provide those options and they work. That is because the core parts are provided by intel/amd. How is it that msi/asus/supermicro/etc manage to afford all those options on devices that cost 1/2 of what the average HP device does? HP/etc can't even get windows working correctly on a device that ships with windows. That is fundamentally what the article is about (the OS pref requests not being honored properly). Its because HP/Dell/etc aren't really providing any real validation above the underlying ODM anymore. So whether the S3/whatever mode actually works is more a function of whether intel/amd and their bios provider insyde/ami/etc managed to get the option hooked up at all. So if you happen to enable S3 with some funny device and it doesn't come out of standby properly, then sure its a bug, you have to disable that device or disable S3. But what really happens with the HP/etc laptops is you don't have the choice. Which is why you see endless complaints about modern standby issues on their "windows" devices despite running the supported OS. If the end user could just go and ignore the MS recommendations and disable modern standby on a laptop class device they likely would be much happier. Having the machine work reliably vs download email when the lid is closed is an easy choice. In summary, the "value add" the big OEM's are adding is product segmentation by removing options the underlying technology providers ship by default.

bayindirh 6y ago

Supporting more options generally need more engineering and test work, hence it drives prices up. These settings and multi-os compatibility is generally reserved for enterprise level devices (EliteBook, XPS/Precision, Thinkapd) where these options both will be used and result in more sales. From end-user perspective it's not nice but, it makes sense from a business perspective since most of the people doesn't care about their disposable laptops' Linux compatibility. "If it works, it works. If it doesn't, I'll buy a new one" they think.

FeepingCreature 6y ago
> "If it works, it works. If it doesn't, I'll buy a new one" they think. Nobody thinks that. Laptops are expensive. > From end-user perspective it's not nice but, it makes sense from a business perspective Lots of deplorable things make sense from a business perspective. That's a very low bar to clear. "Intel's actions aren't literally counterproductive to their short-term interests". Yes, and so? They're not literally motivated by spite for their users. Is that supposed to make it better?
- bayindirh 6y ago
  > Nobody thinks that. Laptops are expensive. For people who know and buy what they need, they're indeed expensive but, some consumers see computers as consumable entities. They buy a machine, use it 2-3 years and buy a new one then. This is my experience at the least. On the contrary, I tend to use every device I own 7-10 years before replacing. > Lots of deplorable things make sense from a business perspective. That's a very low bar to clear. ... Is that supposed to make it better? Saying that doesn't mean I support business interests over legitimate user needs but, businesses are greedy entities which always want more money so, they always follow the path which brings more money. It doesn't make any better either. I want to be able to buy any laptop and/or device I want and change the software stack and tune it the way I wish however, as we see today, this freedom is attacked more and more. Unless consumer choice generates more profits (which is unlikely), we won't see that trend change much.
- pmontra 6y ago
  > Laptops are expensive My non sw developer friends look for Windows laptops in the 300-400 Euro range. Things with flexible keyboards, maybe still 768p screens, a large HDD plus possibly a small SSD, 8 GB RAM, i3 or i5, a couple of USB ports, one HDMI. That's all they need. If I have to explain them why my laptop costs plus than 1000 more than that I only tell them that it's for work, every day all the time.
StillBored 6y ago
I don't buy that, sure they might actually have to test their device for conformance with the requisite standards. OTOH most of the far-eastern brands manage to provide those options and they work. That is because the core parts are provided by intel/amd. How is it that msi/asus/supermicro/etc manage to afford all those options on devices that cost 1/2 of what the average HP device does? HP/etc can't even get windows working correctly on a device that ships with windows. That is fundamentally what the article is about (the OS pref requests not being honored properly). Its because HP/Dell/etc aren't really providing any real validation above the underlying ODM anymore. So whether the S3/whatever mode actually works is more a function of whether intel/amd and their bios provider insyde/ami/etc managed to get the option hooked up at all. So if you happen to enable S3 with some funny device and it doesn't come out of standby properly, then sure its a bug, you have to disable that device or disable S3. But what really happens with the HP/etc laptops is you don't have the choice. Which is why you see endless complaints about modern standby issues on their "windows" devices despite running the supported OS. If the end user could just go and ignore the MS recommendations and disable modern standby on a laptop class device they likely would be much happier. Having the machine work reliably vs download email when the lid is closed is an easy choice. In summary, the "value add" the big OEM's are adding is product segmentation by removing options the underlying technology providers ship by default.