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Those of us who are long enough in UI design know what is a result of attention to detail and professional GUI. We have all used Os X not only for UNIX like cor

by nbzso 6y ago

Those of us who are long enough in UI design know what is a result of attention to detail and professional GUI. We have all used Os X not only for UNIX like core (Darwin) but for consistent UX and UI libraries. In some point in time Apple was influencing our work in really meaningful way by setting the standard (remember Apple Human Interface Guidelines pre Yosemite). For me personally Soundtrack Pro is most polished professional interface ever made. So in this context UI “innovation” trough emoji and implementation of white space for touch interaction (without touch interaction) is funny but not usable. Performance aside ( which is big accomplishment ) I miss the old approach with balance of contrast and natural flow and will stay on Catalina as long as I can. If Apple changes their stance on telemetry, bypassing things and fixes UI/UX design I have no problem to join again. What is lacking in Linux desktop is consistent approach to UI, but for some of us may be is time to revaluate and relearn things. My personal time investment is in Emacs, with time I have more and more respect for those ideas of freedom and consistency. The selling point for me with Apple was professional interface and high UI standards, sadly they are gone. But hey everyone of us is different and this is good, right?

grishka 6y ago
It's all mostly redesign for the sake for redesign at this point. Desktop OSes had been feature-complete for quite some time, but they still have to update every year. They have to. Don't you even dare question that. I'm still on Mojave and it does everything I need from an OS. I also absolutely love native Mac apps, which are becoming rarer and rarer. And no, iOS apps that run on macOS aren't native mac apps. The abomination that is the mojave app store? That definitely took some extra talent to break every single UI guideline, but thankfully I only open it once a couple months.
- nbzso 6y ago
  Just a thought: If someone in 2008 asked me -What desktop interfaces will be used in 2020? My answer may have been: Apple will implement a new Desktop paradigm on top of Raskin Zoomable UI Ideas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jef_Raskin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jef_Raskin). But here we are: Monster SOC with Cartoon Network on top. :)
  - grishka 6y ago
    The thing with interfaces is that there's no inherent need for change if the method of interaction doesn't change. It was a non-touch screen, a keyboard, and a mouse/trackpad 20 years ago, and it still is today. Some things just work great. They're tried and true and battle-tested. Like, you know, densely packed windows that are optimized for the precision of the mouse pointer.
- heavyset_go 6y ago
  > Desktop OSes had been feature-complete for quite some time It's less that desktop OSes are feature complete, and more that vendors want recurring cloud subscription fees from users for new features these days.
jolux 6y ago
Oh hey another emacs user! You can turn off all the telemetry in macOS and they ask you if you want it on when you setup the computer. Agree to disagree on Big Sur, I love the new look. Keep in mind they’re calling it macOS 11, so there are probably bigger and less superficial changes down the road.
- sneak 6y ago
  > You can turn off all the telemetry in macOS and they ask you if you want it on when you setup the computer. That's false. You can turn off OS analytics but there is tons of telemetry built into almost every Apple app, separate from that, that you cannot disable. It tells you about it on first app launch. Open Maps, for example, and it will tell you about the unique, rotating identifier it uses to track your searches. Opting out of OS analytics does not disable telemetry for the other Apple services now deeply integrated in the OS. Even disabling these features doesn't prevent the mac from talking to the services, such as in the case of Siri. Additionally gatekeeper OCSP checks on app launches serve as telemetry in practice, and this has no preference or setting to disable it.
  - 1over137 6y ago
    Exactly. But at least pre-Big-Sur you could use Little Snitch to block Apple apps from sending things, but now that's no longer possible. :(
    - sneak 6y ago
      If you have an intel mac, you can still install LS 4.x (once you have booted into recovery to permit the kext) on Big Sur. HN user miles pointed this out recently, and it is awesome. https://www.obdev.at/support/littlesnitch/245913651253917 https://www.obdev.at/support/littlesnitch/245913651253917 It's 5.x that uses the new restricted APIs. I'm going to contact the developers and ask for an ARM build of 4.x so the same trick will work on M1, at least until Apple forbids all kexts some time in the future.
      - 6y ago

by nbzso 6y ago

grishka 6y ago

It's all mostly redesign for the sake for redesign at this point. Desktop OSes had been feature-complete for quite some time, but they still have to update every year. They have to. Don't you even dare question that. I'm still on Mojave and it does everything I need from an OS. I also absolutely love native Mac apps, which are becoming rarer and rarer. And no, iOS apps that run on macOS aren't native mac apps. The abomination that is the mojave app store? That definitely took some extra talent to break every single UI guideline, but thankfully I only open it once a couple months.

nbzso 6y ago
Just a thought: If someone in 2008 asked me -What desktop interfaces will be used in 2020? My answer may have been: Apple will implement a new Desktop paradigm on top of Raskin Zoomable UI Ideas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jef_Raskin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jef_Raskin). But here we are: Monster SOC with Cartoon Network on top. :)
- grishka 6y ago
  The thing with interfaces is that there's no inherent need for change if the method of interaction doesn't change. It was a non-touch screen, a keyboard, and a mouse/trackpad 20 years ago, and it still is today. Some things just work great. They're tried and true and battle-tested. Like, you know, densely packed windows that are optimized for the precision of the mouse pointer.
heavyset_go 6y ago
> Desktop OSes had been feature-complete for quite some time It's less that desktop OSes are feature complete, and more that vendors want recurring cloud subscription fees from users for new features these days.

jolux 6y ago

Oh hey another emacs user! You can turn off all the telemetry in macOS and they ask you if you want it on when you setup the computer. Agree to disagree on Big Sur, I love the new look. Keep in mind they’re calling it macOS 11, so there are probably bigger and less superficial changes down the road.

sneak 6y ago
> You can turn off all the telemetry in macOS and they ask you if you want it on when you setup the computer. That's false. You can turn off OS analytics but there is tons of telemetry built into almost every Apple app, separate from that, that you cannot disable. It tells you about it on first app launch. Open Maps, for example, and it will tell you about the unique, rotating identifier it uses to track your searches. Opting out of OS analytics does not disable telemetry for the other Apple services now deeply integrated in the OS. Even disabling these features doesn't prevent the mac from talking to the services, such as in the case of Siri. Additionally gatekeeper OCSP checks on app launches serve as telemetry in practice, and this has no preference or setting to disable it.
- 1over137 6y ago
  Exactly. But at least pre-Big-Sur you could use Little Snitch to block Apple apps from sending things, but now that's no longer possible. :(
  - sneak 6y ago
    If you have an intel mac, you can still install LS 4.x (once you have booted into recovery to permit the kext) on Big Sur. HN user miles pointed this out recently, and it is awesome. https://www.obdev.at/support/littlesnitch/245913651253917 https://www.obdev.at/support/littlesnitch/245913651253917 It's 5.x that uses the new restricted APIs. I'm going to contact the developers and ask for an ARM build of 4.x so the same trick will work on M1, at least until Apple forbids all kexts some time in the future.
    - 6y ago