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> there is cause for celebration in Dallas, Seattle and Austin, after our analysis has shown that these cities are performing extremely well relative to most Eu
by nostromo 6y ago
> there is cause for celebration in Dallas, Seattle and Austin, after our analysis has shown that these cities are performing extremely well relative to most European capital cities.
Seattle has some actual competition now, and many (most?) of us can get fiber gigabit to the home for a reasonable rate. It's glorious.
I hope other American cities start courting meaningful ISP competition in their cities -- but I'm not holding my breath. Many American city governments see ISPs as companies they can shake down for fees and concessions, not realizing they're only hurting their own citizens by limiting choice and increasing costs.
- redisman 6y agoI need to see whats out there. Still using Xfinity in the suburbs and it's pretty meh, terrible upload making wfh a pain.
- archgoon 6y agoCan you expand on when competition came to Seattle and how? I've been using Condo Internet (now Wave Broadband) for something close to 5-6 years. When was the tipping point in terms of competition?
- nostromo 6y agoCenturylink now offers fiber gigabit to the home for about $65 or so a month. It happened because a former mayor (Ed Murray, who has since left office after a personal scandal) made it easier for ISPs to build out their networks and removed homeowners and neighborhood groups from the process which previously allowed them to block things like communications boxes on sidewalks. At the time, a bunch of local columnists moaned about this "corporate giveaway"[1] -- but it's pretty clear in retrospect it was the right move. 1. https://www.seattletimes.com/business/mayors-centurylink-giveaway-sure-to-create-controversy/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/mayors-centurylink-giv...
- filoleg 6y agoDon't forget about Google Webpass, they started advertising heavily in Seattle area starting about a year ago. I switched to them earlier last year due to having periodic issues with WaveG in my new apt building about 8 months into my lease (their technician would come a week or two after I report constant outages, fix something in the server room of my building, and then the issues would start again in a few weeks; haven't had any issues with WaveG at my previous apt though). Service has been great, pricing is even cheaper than WaveG (I pay about $50/mo for their gig fiber offering), no contracts or any other lock-in (unless you pick the option to pay for the whole year upfront for a small discount). It definitely does feel like there is a good amount of real competition in Seattle now.
- filmgirlcw 6y agoYup! My apartment building was pre-wired for fiber and I can get WaveG, Century Link, or WebPass. I can also get Comcast if I wanted to torture myself. That’s the most options I have ever had in my entire life for an ISP. We’re with WaveG and have no reason to switch but the fact that I have multiple fiber options if I need to makes me really happy. In Brooklyn, I couldn’t get FiOS in my building even though the building across the street and next door could do it. Something with the zoning and no matter how hard we (and Verizon) tried, nada. The upshot was Cablevision was an exceptional ISP (let me run a server out of the apartment as part of the written TOS, which was incredible), but it was still slower than FiOS. In Atlanta, my parents’ house was prewired for fiber and gigabit but they have been stuck with not even the fastest available cable because of ISP tie-ups. It’s painful and they have zero choice.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago> The upshot was Cablevision was an exceptional ISP (let me run a server out of the apartment as part of the written TOS, which was incredible), but it was still slower than FiOS. This is no longer the case since Altice purchased cable vision/optimum. They jacked up the prices and Andy reduced quality of service.
- ViViDboarder 6y ago
- loeg 6y agoCenturyLink fiber is relatively recent to the Seattle area (2017 or 2018) and serves a broader customer base than Wave née Condo. Condo was historically only available in a small number of buildings very close to the Westin building downtown (site of the Seattle Internet Exchange). It is slightly broader now, but only slightly. Here's a big old PDF of Seattle area internet service (2019)[1]. Most of Seattle is CenturyLink + Comcast. The second biggest portion is Comcast-only. Wave covers very little of the city. [1]: https://www.seattle.gov/tech/initiatives/broadband/gigabit-availability https://www.seattle.gov/tech/initiatives/broadband/gigabit-a...
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- rconti 6y agoSeems like I was hearing my Seattle friends brag about their Centurylink Fiber quite a long time ago -- I want to say 5 or 8 years. Maybe the initial rollout was small and it took awhile to get going? I'm a Seattle native, down in the bay area now, and JUST got gigabit fiber. Couldn't be happier.
- loeg 6y agoMaybe CenturyLink rolled out to a limited availability sooner than I'm remembering. There was also a very limited Verizon FTTH rollout on the east side some time earlier as well, but I don't know anyone who was in a service area for it.
- jeffwilcox 6y agoThe speedy providers are all jumping over each other to compete, now that the "gentlemen's agreement" between providers is no longer a thing... but they are cherry picking from people willing to pay and easily providing the service. Seems like maybe 3 years ago when all the cable companies were able to compete without exclusivity by block? In my condo building of 200+ units we have 5 providers now: - Wave broadband cable - Comcast cable - Wave G (10Gbps connection to the building) - Webpass Google Fiber (microwave to the building) - CenturyLink (DSL maybe?) The bummer is outside the high-rise towers, there is not much competition in the neighborhoods and single family homes it seems.
- eru 6y agoI wonder whether the promise of faster Internet would diminish some of the NIMBY opposition to high rise towers?
- MikeTheGreat 6y agoI'm going to say "Probably not". You're talking about people who have chosen to live in lower-density housing with lower internet speeds. I'm sure they'd love higher internet speeds, but not so much that they'd give up the 'lower density housing' part :)
- lotsofpulp 6y agoIn my experience, new construction has access to fiber, and very little old construction has access to fiber.
- floatingatoll 6y agoDo you think that SpaceX would be considered competition by the carriers?
- new_realist 6y agoGiven its infinitesimally small capacity relative to the major backbones (4,991 terabits per second) no.
- eru 6y agoWell in economics what often matters is what's happening at the margins. So the total capacity might not be that important. Though you are right, even though the race isn't always to the swift, that's the way to bet.
- umanwizard 6y agoBy this logic should McDonald’s be worried if I start making burgers in my apartment and giving them to my friends for free?
- chokeartist 6y agoNo, but keep edgelording.
- daniellarusso 6y agoStarlink is giving away free internet now?
- dodobirdlord 6y agoTotal capacity is clearly extremely important. Were it not the case nobody would be running new undersea cables to places that already have undersea cable connections.
- mjevans 6y agoOnly in the super rural areas that either aren't wanted as serious competition areas anyway or smart enough to run their own local infra properly and lease out the video over IP stuff to a cable company to not deal with the licensing BS for content.
- eru 6y ago> Many American city governments see ISPs as companies they can shake down for fees and concessions, not realizing they're only hurting their own citizens by limiting choice and increasing costs. And yet your typical American on the Internet still blames greedy companies for their slow speeds. As if companies elsewhere with faster Internet were less greedy.
- AshWolfy 6y agoEuropean internet is better because of regulation, forcing competition, and government investment in infrastructure, not the free market
- nichos 6y agoCompetition is the free market, not regulation. Europe is massively different than America in size.
- Broken_Hippo 6y agoNo, not really. Europe is a little bigger. The countries are more like eastern states. [1] This is somewhat important, considering most of the regulation on utilities are at a state level - and the utilities kind of are as well. Some of the countries are somewhat populous - you know, like states - and some have a pretty sparse population. You know, like states. [1] https://www.tripsavvy.com/so-just-how-big-is-europe-compared-to-the-us-anyway-3971019#:~:text=In%20terms%20of%20landmass%2C%20the,closer%20together%20than%20western%20states https://www.tripsavvy.com/so-just-how-big-is-europe-compared...).
- rayiner 6y agoEuropean Internet, according TFA, is for the most part not better. The largest country above us on the list has 17 million people. The big European countries (France, Germany, Italy, Spain, and the UK, which together comprise 70% of the EU) have slower Internet. The fastest country on the list, Denmark, has almost no competition in the sector: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_Denmark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_Denmark. And it’s been a model of deregulation: https://reason.com/2017/10/24/how-denmark-has-overtaken-the-us-as-a-te/ https://reason.com/2017/10/24/how-denmark-has-overtaken-the-... > Regulators around the world took notice and strove to emulate the success of the U.S. approach. Denmark in particular styled its own telecommunications regulations on the U.S. model, slashing its chief telecom regulator altogether and assigning small regulatory functions to other departments. Denmark is basically the situation where you have a “benevolent former monopoly,” like Verizon here in the mid Atlantic US.
- notyourwork 6y agoMoved to Seattle earlier this year, was sad my internet went up $20/month. Currently paying $80/month for 1G/1G. I do agree though, having fiber to your place with single digit MS ping is quite lovely for all things internet.
- mijkal 6y agoIf you call CL, you should be able to change the plan to $65/mo (one is pre-paid vs post?). I did that last year and saved $20/mo for exact same service. :-) (1 Gpbs up/down)
- notyourwork 6y agoI’ll avoid CL like the plague.
- threentaway 6y agoSeattle doesn't have competition, unfortunately. It's only in the very core of the city that has access to Centurylink fiber, mostly everywhere else is stuck with Comcast cable or laughably slow DSL.
- mijkal 6y agoI had CL 1Gbps fiber in Fremont/Ballard area for a couple years, and was able to transfer service to (very) North Seattle near Bitter Lake. Though my friend in Central District still cannot get fiber (stuck on slow DSL). Maybe I just got lucky?
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]