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What about the cost of TVs and keyboards? I like the idea, but I don't think the place for this device is in schools. In fact, I hope computer science never g

by hasenj 16y ago

What about the cost of TVs and keyboards? I like the idea, but I don't think the place for this device is in schools. In fact, I hope computer science never gets into high school curriculum, it will only make students hate programming. Just look at math. Programming is even harder; and chances are if you're a programmer you're not really likely to become a high school teacher. Conversely most high school teachers will not know how to program.

nyellin 16y ago
Computer science is an optional part of the high school curriculum in Israel. Depending on which matriculation exams you take, the classes teach basic .NET, Java, or Assembly. There's room for improvement, but the classes are widely successful. I have a number of friends who learned to program from high school alone, without a serious effort to learn additional material by themselves.
adrianN 16y ago
But programming is easier to teach, because you have visible results. It's much easier to get kids excited about writing a Tetris clone than calculating a derivative.
- roel_v 16y ago
  Except that in each class there are going to be, at best, one or two people who can reach that level of programming competence. The vast majority of students struggle to make the LOGO turtle do a Z-shaped movement, it's totally unrealistic to expect them to get to the level of writing Tetris within 1 or even 2 years of 1 hour a week programming education.
Starmonkey 16y ago
"I hope computer science never gets into high school curriculum, it will only make students hate programming. " I'm a bit of touch at 41, but are you sure that it isn't already available as an elective for students? Perhaps you meant making it mandatory, which I agree would probably not be very productive. I took programming in High School, but back then it was all using BASIC. We learned the concepts of variables, memory, loops, and even simple algorithms. And if we finished our homework ahead of the rest of the class, we got to play games. Quite the motivating factor for me at the time.
ColinWright 16y ago
> Just look at math. > Programming is even harder; Wow. There's someone who has a substantially different idea from mine as to what constitutes math, what constitutes programming, and what constitutes "hard." > ... chances are if you're a programmer you're > not really likely to become a high school teacher. Ditto mathematician. Most high school teachers I know of who are teaching math have no idea what math is really about. > Conversely most high school teachers will not > know how to program. So, no different from math, then.
- hasenj 16y ago
  Programming is harder to break into a set of rules and formulas that you can just apply to an artificially constructed problem. You just can't "fake" it. You either get it, or you don't. Most high school teachers won't "get" it. > Ditto mathematician. Most high school teachers I know of who are teaching math have no idea what math is really a I know, but they can fake it, because the curriculum is designed as a set of rules that must be learned. > So, no different from math, then. The difference is that programming cannot be taught as a set of rules that must be learned and then applied without much understanding.
  - ColinWright 16y ago
    What you're saying is there is no real math in the curriculum, and you're right. There'll never be any real programming in the curriculum either.
wizard_2 16y ago
I had computer science and electrical engineering in my high school, they taught the CS majors c++ and the EE majors do networking (what was then the ccna) and both of us got digital logic. I was an EE who loved both, I'm very very happy I had this available to me. So were most of my friends. It was the first kind of classes where we could be good at it and see a purpose.

by hasenj 16y ago

nyellin 16y ago

Computer science is an optional part of the high school curriculum in Israel. Depending on which matriculation exams you take, the classes teach basic .NET, Java, or Assembly. There's room for improvement, but the classes are widely successful. I have a number of friends who learned to program from high school alone, without a serious effort to learn additional material by themselves.

adrianN 16y ago

But programming is easier to teach, because you have visible results. It's much easier to get kids excited about writing a Tetris clone than calculating a derivative.

roel_v 16y ago
Except that in each class there are going to be, at best, one or two people who can reach that level of programming competence. The vast majority of students struggle to make the LOGO turtle do a Z-shaped movement, it's totally unrealistic to expect them to get to the level of writing Tetris within 1 or even 2 years of 1 hour a week programming education.

Starmonkey 16y ago

"I hope computer science never gets into high school curriculum, it will only make students hate programming. " I'm a bit of touch at 41, but are you sure that it isn't already available as an elective for students? Perhaps you meant making it mandatory, which I agree would probably not be very productive. I took programming in High School, but back then it was all using BASIC. We learned the concepts of variables, memory, loops, and even simple algorithms. And if we finished our homework ahead of the rest of the class, we got to play games. Quite the motivating factor for me at the time.

ColinWright 16y ago

> Just look at math. > Programming is even harder; Wow. There's someone who has a substantially different idea from mine as to what constitutes math, what constitutes programming, and what constitutes "hard." > ... chances are if you're a programmer you're > not really likely to become a high school teacher. Ditto mathematician. Most high school teachers I know of who are teaching math have no idea what math is really about. > Conversely most high school teachers will not > know how to program. So, no different from math, then.

hasenj 16y ago
Programming is harder to break into a set of rules and formulas that you can just apply to an artificially constructed problem. You just can't "fake" it. You either get it, or you don't. Most high school teachers won't "get" it. > Ditto mathematician. Most high school teachers I know of who are teaching math have no idea what math is really a I know, but they can fake it, because the curriculum is designed as a set of rules that must be learned. > So, no different from math, then. The difference is that programming cannot be taught as a set of rules that must be learned and then applied without much understanding.
- ColinWright 16y ago
  What you're saying is there is no real math in the curriculum, and you're right. There'll never be any real programming in the curriculum either.

wizard_2 16y ago

I had computer science and electrical engineering in my high school, they taught the CS majors c++ and the EE majors do networking (what was then the ccna) and both of us got digital logic. I was an EE who loved both, I'm very very happy I had this available to me. So were most of my friends. It was the first kind of classes where we could be good at it and see a purpose.