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NeXT failed on the hardware cost side because they wanted to be a personal computer and not a workstation. They were priced for neither market. I looked very

by kjs3 6y ago

NeXT failed on the hardware cost side because they wanted to be a personal computer and not a workstation. They were priced for neither market. I looked very seriously at Unix machines around the time NeXT came out, having been converted to that religion in college. NeXT started at around US$6500, and that was with the optical disk only. The equivalent-ish Sun box (Sun 3/80) started at around US$15k with disk as I recall and went up in price really fast if you wanted more memory/disk/etc. About the cost of a new Honda Accord at the time. And the Sparcstations were out at much higher performance (and price...I seem to recall around US$22k for a usable config). On the other hand, you could get a nicely decked out 386/33 for maybe half the cost of the NeXT, or a 486 for a grand or so more. And it ran tons of software, even if it was garbage. Even Unix.

myrandomcomment 6y ago
This is a good comment. To put more data here: 1st NeXT Computer 1988: Motorola 68030/25Mhz w/68882 FPU, 64MB RAM max. MIPS: 4 Sun Workstation 1988 Sun-4 line: Spac @ 16-33Mhz, 32-768MB RAM MIPS: 7-114 Now having used both, the desktop and usability on the NeXT was so much better.
GlenTheMachine 6y ago
The low-end NeXTstation was $2999 if I recall correctly. I had one. For the price you couldn’t get a faster machine.
- wpietri 6y ago
  Ah, a lovely machine. That was their second generation, when they were starting to get a sense of reality. Although Wikipedia has the introductory price at $4995, or nearly $10k in 2020 dollars.
  - jonhendry18 6y ago
    "Although Wikipedia has the introductory price at $4995, or nearly $10k in 2020 dollars." But the comparable machines of the time like the Mac IIfx or the Sun boxes of the time had similar or higher prices.
    - redis_mlc 6y ago
      Kind of illustrates the point of being unaffordable.
    - GlenTheMachine 6y ago
      It had a significant educational discount I believe. And I was a college student.
    - wpietri 6y ago
      Sure, but the Mac II fx was the high-end machine in a consumer line with plenty of low-end options. And the Sun boxes were workstations targeted at businesses and institutions, where high price is not a barrier if the business value is there. The NeXT hardware was never really competitive in either market except certain niches. E.g., all our clients were in financial trading, because they were willing to pay a huge premium for rapid app development for financial traders.
- kjs3 6y ago
  The NeXT at launch was $6500 list for the base model. There were academic deals where you could get it for less, but that's not what we are talking about. And you could get a machine for $3k at least as fast in 1988; the 68030 was past it's prime. If by 'NeXTstation', you mean the 'Slab' pizzabox NeXT, that was $5k list for the mono version, released in 1990, and had a 68040. You could get a much faster machine for $3k in 1990.
  - icedchai 6y ago
    The fact is NeXT machines were dogs. The OS was nice but the hardware was very underpowered. I have a slab in my retro collection. It looks pretty, but a Sun Sparc from the same era is much more powerful.
    - GlenTheMachine 6y ago
      You’re comparing computers that sold at very different price points.
      - icedchai 6y ago
        You are right. Sun's were much more expensive. But I would argue both were in the same class. NeXT also frequently compared themselves to Sun. I'm pretty sure Sun offered huge academic discounts. I never saw NeXT at any of the local universities... It was mostly Sun and DEC.
      - wpietri 6y ago
        But to the same markets. NeXTs were being sold both to the workstation and to the personal computer market. They were cheap but underpowered for a workstation, making them not very good for worksation-ish things, because you couldn't scale up. For a personal computer, they were very expensive, so they didn't do well there either.
        GlenTheMachine 6y ago
        I’m not arguing they had a good business plan - clearly they did not. All I’m arguing is that they were very good computers for the price, both in terms of software and hardware.

by kjs3 6y ago

myrandomcomment 6y ago

This is a good comment. To put more data here: 1st NeXT Computer 1988: Motorola 68030/25Mhz w/68882 FPU, 64MB RAM max. MIPS: 4 Sun Workstation 1988 Sun-4 line: Spac @ 16-33Mhz, 32-768MB RAM MIPS: 7-114 Now having used both, the desktop and usability on the NeXT was so much better.

GlenTheMachine 6y ago

The low-end NeXTstation was $2999 if I recall correctly. I had one. For the price you couldn’t get a faster machine.

wpietri 6y ago
Ah, a lovely machine. That was their second generation, when they were starting to get a sense of reality. Although Wikipedia has the introductory price at $4995, or nearly $10k in 2020 dollars.
- jonhendry18 6y ago
  "Although Wikipedia has the introductory price at $4995, or nearly $10k in 2020 dollars." But the comparable machines of the time like the Mac IIfx or the Sun boxes of the time had similar or higher prices.
  - redis_mlc 6y ago
    Kind of illustrates the point of being unaffordable.
  - GlenTheMachine 6y ago
    It had a significant educational discount I believe. And I was a college student.
  - wpietri 6y ago
    Sure, but the Mac II fx was the high-end machine in a consumer line with plenty of low-end options. And the Sun boxes were workstations targeted at businesses and institutions, where high price is not a barrier if the business value is there. The NeXT hardware was never really competitive in either market except certain niches. E.g., all our clients were in financial trading, because they were willing to pay a huge premium for rapid app development for financial traders.
kjs3 6y ago
The NeXT at launch was $6500 list for the base model. There were academic deals where you could get it for less, but that's not what we are talking about. And you could get a machine for $3k at least as fast in 1988; the 68030 was past it's prime. If by 'NeXTstation', you mean the 'Slab' pizzabox NeXT, that was $5k list for the mono version, released in 1990, and had a 68040. You could get a much faster machine for $3k in 1990.
- icedchai 6y ago
  The fact is NeXT machines were dogs. The OS was nice but the hardware was very underpowered. I have a slab in my retro collection. It looks pretty, but a Sun Sparc from the same era is much more powerful.
  - GlenTheMachine 6y ago
    You’re comparing computers that sold at very different price points.
    - icedchai 6y ago
      You are right. Sun's were much more expensive. But I would argue both were in the same class. NeXT also frequently compared themselves to Sun. I'm pretty sure Sun offered huge academic discounts. I never saw NeXT at any of the local universities... It was mostly Sun and DEC.
    - wpietri 6y ago
      But to the same markets. NeXTs were being sold both to the workstation and to the personal computer market. They were cheap but underpowered for a workstation, making them not very good for worksation-ish things, because you couldn't scale up. For a personal computer, they were very expensive, so they didn't do well there either.
      - GlenTheMachine 6y ago
        I’m not arguing they had a good business plan - clearly they did not. All I’m arguing is that they were very good computers for the price, both in terms of software and hardware.