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My comment in on point, not off-topic. I had no intention to "hijack" the top comment, didn't even think about that until I've seen your comment. I don't see Ru

My comment in on point, not off-topic. I had no intention to "hijack" the top comment, didn't even think about that until I've seen your comment. I don't see Rust as a replacement for Java and I also pointed out that Rust has to win the mindshare of C++ programmers first, before even reaching other ecosystems. Rust is mainly a replacement for C++.

danudey 6y ago
Your comment that Java and Rust don't overlap is valid, but going on to discuss how you're going to keep using C++ and Python, and how Unreal Engine uses C++, is wildly irrelevant. Rust isn't going to replace Java, but it may supplant Java in a lot of fields where one wants both memory safety and an OO language with high performance. No one is (rationally) suggesting that Rust will replace every language. The tone of your post, however, makes it sound as though you have something against Rust, and that you're more interested in pointing out all the things it's not good at, or shouldn't be used for, rather than contributing to a constructive discussion. > I also pointed out that Rust has to win the mindshare of C++ programmers first, before even reaching other ecosystems Not entirely true; Rust is an alternative to C++, but it's vastly more accessible to people who've used other languages like Java, Python, Ruby, and so on, where you get types, OO, and memory safety. Instead of simply resulting in a 1:1 replacement of C++ with Rust, it may result in a minimal reduction in C++ programming and a notable increase in Rust programming which would have been done in another safe OO language instead, but at dramatically worse performance.
- chc 6y ago
  Small clarification — Rust very deliberately does not do OO. It has features that look sort of like OO from a syntactic standpoint, but being object oriented is not a design goal for Rust.
  - drran 6y ago
    Developers do OOP even in C and asm. Rust is much better for OOP than C.
anw 6y ago
> I also pointed out that Rust has to win the mindshare of C++ programmers first, before even reaching other ecosystems C++ is just a tool, as is Rust. Rust does not need to win the mindshare of C++ programmers first to become successful. It only needs to itself as a viable alternative in whatever fields people find it useful. I believe it has. Between WASM, embedded, and even Web development, I see a lot of "mindshare" being attracted to Rust.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  Coffeescript also won a lot of mindshare, the point is keeping it for decades.
  - palerdot 6y ago
    Coffee Script is a transpiled language and it has become irrelevant when lot of the language features it offered is now natively available in ES6 and up (it has definitely inspired lot of ES6 features like fat arrow functions). Rust on the other hand is not a thin layer on top of something like Coffee script. So it does not need to keep up with 'something' for decades. As long as it continues to do its current job of making systems programming safer and fun, it is going to be here for a long long time.
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      As long as it has an OS SDK to make it relevant for tier 1 systems programming. Meaning coming in Apple, Google, Microsoft, Nintendo, Sony, AMD, NVidia, random IoT OS vendor SDK, with bindings to all relevant OS libraries. So far, Rust/WinRT seems to be the only thing into that direction, and given how C++/WinRT tooling support turned out, I rather wait and see.
    - winstonewert 6y ago
      I don't think the transpilation was the issue for Coffee Script. After all, most usage of ES6 is through a transpiler anyways. Rather, I think ES6 is simply a superior language to Coffee Script. That's why it has lost marketshare. Likewise, something superior to Rust could arise, and then Rust's marketshare will be in trouble.

danudey 6y ago

Your comment that Java and Rust don't overlap is valid, but going on to discuss how you're going to keep using C++ and Python, and how Unreal Engine uses C++, is wildly irrelevant. Rust isn't going to replace Java, but it may supplant Java in a lot of fields where one wants both memory safety and an OO language with high performance. No one is (rationally) suggesting that Rust will replace every language. The tone of your post, however, makes it sound as though you have something against Rust, and that you're more interested in pointing out all the things it's not good at, or shouldn't be used for, rather than contributing to a constructive discussion. > I also pointed out that Rust has to win the mindshare of C++ programmers first, before even reaching other ecosystems Not entirely true; Rust is an alternative to C++, but it's vastly more accessible to people who've used other languages like Java, Python, Ruby, and so on, where you get types, OO, and memory safety. Instead of simply resulting in a 1:1 replacement of C++ with Rust, it may result in a minimal reduction in C++ programming and a notable increase in Rust programming which would have been done in another safe OO language instead, but at dramatically worse performance.

chc 6y ago
Small clarification — Rust very deliberately does not do OO. It has features that look sort of like OO from a syntactic standpoint, but being object oriented is not a design goal for Rust.
- drran 6y ago
  Developers do OOP even in C and asm. Rust is much better for OOP than C.

anw 6y ago

> I also pointed out that Rust has to win the mindshare of C++ programmers first, before even reaching other ecosystems C++ is just a tool, as is Rust. Rust does not need to win the mindshare of C++ programmers first to become successful. It only needs to itself as a viable alternative in whatever fields people find it useful. I believe it has. Between WASM, embedded, and even Web development, I see a lot of "mindshare" being attracted to Rust.

pjmlp 6y ago
Coffeescript also won a lot of mindshare, the point is keeping it for decades.
- palerdot 6y ago
  Coffee Script is a transpiled language and it has become irrelevant when lot of the language features it offered is now natively available in ES6 and up (it has definitely inspired lot of ES6 features like fat arrow functions). Rust on the other hand is not a thin layer on top of something like Coffee script. So it does not need to keep up with 'something' for decades. As long as it continues to do its current job of making systems programming safer and fun, it is going to be here for a long long time.
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    As long as it has an OS SDK to make it relevant for tier 1 systems programming. Meaning coming in Apple, Google, Microsoft, Nintendo, Sony, AMD, NVidia, random IoT OS vendor SDK, with bindings to all relevant OS libraries. So far, Rust/WinRT seems to be the only thing into that direction, and given how C++/WinRT tooling support turned out, I rather wait and see.
  - winstonewert 6y ago
    I don't think the transpilation was the issue for Coffee Script. After all, most usage of ES6 is through a transpiler anyways. Rather, I think ES6 is simply a superior language to Coffee Script. That's why it has lost marketshare. Likewise, something superior to Rust could arise, and then Rust's marketshare will be in trouble.