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There's a third strategy for the no-BS, independent types: opt out. Contracting/consulting avoids a lot of that. You're not a worker bee that the company "owns/

There's a third strategy for the no-BS, independent types: opt out. Contracting/consulting avoids a lot of that. You're not a worker bee that the company "owns/rents", you are a vendor providing a service. It's usually fairly concrete what you're providing, and it's fairly clear if they are satisfied (if they aren't, they stop paying you). As a bonus, it's expected that you set your schedule (as a 1099 requirement), so you get a lot of flexibility. Of course, if you're contracting for a company that thinks in terms of "resources" that will trickle down into contractors, too. Sometimes team perks like the quarterly see-a-random-movie are "members-only", which doesn't feel great. But then, nobody complains much if you take three weeks off to go hiking.

toyg 6y ago
Been there, done that; the problem is the hassle over unrelated overhead (like chasing payments, in one case for almost a year...) and the uncertainty (it’s feast or famine, most of the time).
SkyPuncher 6y ago
Contracting/consulting comes with an entirely different set of problem/challenge, though. I feel like this suggestion is akin to remodeling your house simply because the walls are the wrong paint color.
Nursie 6y ago
A good part of the reason I'm independent these days is hatred of the annual review. Of course the pay bump helps :)
intricatedetail 6y ago
That no longer will be possible in the UK next year as government changed IR35 rules. Clients to be safe will declare you a deemed employee and as a bonus they'll be able to use tools used on employees plus you get no employment rights.
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  That legislation seems short sighted to me, the less flexible the workforce is the worse off we will be. If they were worried about losing tax revenue they should have started treating dividends as normal income.
JamesBarney 6y ago
This has not been my experience consulting at all. Unless you're working for a small company directly for the owner you will be dealing with someone who has to convince their boss the project was a success or you were responsible for the failure. And you need to care about a lot of metrics and outcomes to make that you are successful as measured by those metrics, or that it doesn't look like you are responsible for the failure. Just doing a great job doesn't cut it. No client ever really wants on day 90 what they signed up for on day 1. For most clients the person who is signing your checks, the person you work with on a day to day basis, and the people who will be using your apps will be different people. They will all have different ideas of what success and failure are, and they all have other people they are responsible to. And all of these tensions need to be managed successfully, and this involves a ton of BS that is completely unrelated to what a naïve engineer would describe as "delivering value". In a normal job your boss is usually your friend, and looks bad if he throws you under the bus. This is not the same for a lot of consulting engagements where people are highly motived to blame their failures on you.
- Baeocystin 6y ago
  >Unless you're working for a small company directly for the owner These are the only clients I take as a consultant. As an individual, you aren't going to be able to have that many clients at once; there's no reason, then, not to target the ones that make the job more satisfying. You do often wind up working for small (<50 employees) businesses, but at the same time, this also means your work has a greater chance of having a bigger positive impact across the board. Everyone has their different wants, of course, and there are plenty of headaches that come from being a 1099 worker. But there's no reason it has to be a slog, either.
- 01100011 6y ago
  It really depends. Like many "software" discussions on HN, it depends what type of software you work on. It depends on the companies you work for. It depends on your reputation and the types of jobs you take. You can have folks swearing that their 20 year consulting/contracting career was a breeze arguing with people who complain about bad customers and unpaid invoices. I've had customers that want every minute accounted for. I've been pressed to cut my rate for time spent in meetings. I've also had years where the invoices were paid and no questions were asked. I often developed good, personal relationships with clients, even the ones asking me to cut my rate for meetings. It depends what the company is looking for. It depends on if you oversold yourself, or failed to manage expectations. It's easy to promise too much to get the job. It helps to work with people who are current/former engineers because they understand realities better. That's not always the case, but generally.

toyg 6y ago

Been there, done that; the problem is the hassle over unrelated overhead (like chasing payments, in one case for almost a year...) and the uncertainty (it’s feast or famine, most of the time).

SkyPuncher 6y ago

Contracting/consulting comes with an entirely different set of problem/challenge, though. I feel like this suggestion is akin to remodeling your house simply because the walls are the wrong paint color.

Nursie 6y ago

A good part of the reason I'm independent these days is hatred of the annual review. Of course the pay bump helps :)

intricatedetail 6y ago

That no longer will be possible in the UK next year as government changed IR35 rules. Clients to be safe will declare you a deemed employee and as a bonus they'll be able to use tools used on employees plus you get no employment rights.

tonyedgecombe 6y ago
That legislation seems short sighted to me, the less flexible the workforce is the worse off we will be. If they were worried about losing tax revenue they should have started treating dividends as normal income.

JamesBarney 6y ago

This has not been my experience consulting at all. Unless you're working for a small company directly for the owner you will be dealing with someone who has to convince their boss the project was a success or you were responsible for the failure. And you need to care about a lot of metrics and outcomes to make that you are successful as measured by those metrics, or that it doesn't look like you are responsible for the failure. Just doing a great job doesn't cut it. No client ever really wants on day 90 what they signed up for on day 1. For most clients the person who is signing your checks, the person you work with on a day to day basis, and the people who will be using your apps will be different people. They will all have different ideas of what success and failure are, and they all have other people they are responsible to. And all of these tensions need to be managed successfully, and this involves a ton of BS that is completely unrelated to what a naïve engineer would describe as "delivering value". In a normal job your boss is usually your friend, and looks bad if he throws you under the bus. This is not the same for a lot of consulting engagements where people are highly motived to blame their failures on you.

Baeocystin 6y ago
>Unless you're working for a small company directly for the owner These are the only clients I take as a consultant. As an individual, you aren't going to be able to have that many clients at once; there's no reason, then, not to target the ones that make the job more satisfying. You do often wind up working for small (<50 employees) businesses, but at the same time, this also means your work has a greater chance of having a bigger positive impact across the board. Everyone has their different wants, of course, and there are plenty of headaches that come from being a 1099 worker. But there's no reason it has to be a slog, either.
01100011 6y ago
It really depends. Like many "software" discussions on HN, it depends what type of software you work on. It depends on the companies you work for. It depends on your reputation and the types of jobs you take. You can have folks swearing that their 20 year consulting/contracting career was a breeze arguing with people who complain about bad customers and unpaid invoices. I've had customers that want every minute accounted for. I've been pressed to cut my rate for time spent in meetings. I've also had years where the invoices were paid and no questions were asked. I often developed good, personal relationships with clients, even the ones asking me to cut my rate for meetings. It depends what the company is looking for. It depends on if you oversold yourself, or failed to manage expectations. It's easy to promise too much to get the job. It helps to work with people who are current/former engineers because they understand realities better. That's not always the case, but generally.