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>climate doesn't have buying power though I agree with the conclusion thats a bad argument, people do have buying power and they do care IF theymake the connect

>climate doesn't have buying power though I agree with the conclusion thats a bad argument, people do have buying power and they do care IF theymake the connection. that said even if it does not makes financial sense we should still do it because 1) survival of biosphere should trump survival of economic system. 2) people are ignoring the potential to create new market here and the possibility of creating an entirely new industry is quite enticing.

baq 6y ago
our climate situation fits pretty much perfectly to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons. given that, i see no way forward other than a coordinated policy change world-wide (otherwise everybody who can count money will move their polluting assets to places which don't accept the policy). the one way we could sort of proceed is to make being climate-friendly have financial sense. this is the job of taxes and incentives, i.e. regulations. people with money hate changing regulations that got them money and they have money to prevent changing these regulations. countries without money look at countries with money and ask why they have to suffer if those guys could pollute how much they wanted and got rich in the process. the challenge to get a compromise here is unprecedented and the clock is merciless.
- DesiLurker 6y ago
  yes there is no simple solution around tragedy of the commons.. so much so that at times I have felt that it might be our great filter. essentially the kind of survivalist, individualistic thinking that leads to one to innovate out a solution also becomes THE problem when you come close to exhausting the resource limit. Is there a distributed/decentralized solution out of this? I am not sure, basically any attempt at adjusting the underlying pricing structure to reflect carbon prices again has to be global and have some sense of fairness built in for newcomers & guess what they dont hold the power to force rich countries to adapt. so we are back to TotC just at the national level. and even if they do or there is a sudden moment of clarity for the rich & powerful countries any voluntary adjustments will only last till there is a real recession then another DJT will be there to spin an 'alternate fact'. this is why I feel creating another parallel industry of carbon capture may be the only way out of this mess. that too imho will work when fear starts to take hold. the big question is how much time we as a species will have to react before it becomes SHTF.

baq 6y ago

our climate situation fits pretty much perfectly to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons. given that, i see no way forward other than a coordinated policy change world-wide (otherwise everybody who can count money will move their polluting assets to places which don't accept the policy). the one way we could sort of proceed is to make being climate-friendly have financial sense. this is the job of taxes and incentives, i.e. regulations. people with money hate changing regulations that got them money and they have money to prevent changing these regulations. countries without money look at countries with money and ask why they have to suffer if those guys could pollute how much they wanted and got rich in the process. the challenge to get a compromise here is unprecedented and the clock is merciless.

DesiLurker 6y ago
yes there is no simple solution around tragedy of the commons.. so much so that at times I have felt that it might be our great filter. essentially the kind of survivalist, individualistic thinking that leads to one to innovate out a solution also becomes THE problem when you come close to exhausting the resource limit. Is there a distributed/decentralized solution out of this? I am not sure, basically any attempt at adjusting the underlying pricing structure to reflect carbon prices again has to be global and have some sense of fairness built in for newcomers & guess what they dont hold the power to force rich countries to adapt. so we are back to TotC just at the national level. and even if they do or there is a sudden moment of clarity for the rich & powerful countries any voluntary adjustments will only last till there is a real recession then another DJT will be there to spin an 'alternate fact'. this is why I feel creating another parallel industry of carbon capture may be the only way out of this mess. that too imho will work when fear starts to take hold. the big question is how much time we as a species will have to react before it becomes SHTF.