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Spooky reading. Almost strange how many times this sad prophecy about surveillance has been told without us reacting properly. Even now; when we are approaching

Spooky reading. Almost strange how many times this sad prophecy about surveillance has been told without us reacting properly. Even now; when we are approaching some of the most pessimistic scenarios foretold, we don't seem to react.

Nasrudith 6y ago
It isn't a prophecy it is reading in what you want to see from it. Snow Crash was over the top camp when it was first written.
- coldtea 6y ago
  Well, I haven't read Snow Crash, but this excerpt is neither "over the top" nor camp, and appears quite prophetic given 2020.
  - freeone3000 6y ago
    The main character of Snow Crash is named Hiro Protagonist. The above is meant to be absurdity, like the full body scanner in Airplane 2.
    - GekkePrutser 6y ago
      You mean like the ones we have now?
      - freeone3000 6y ago
        It was an absurdity at the time.
        rriepe 6y ago
        Well, I haven't seen Airplane!, but this example is neither "over the top" nor camp, and appears quite prophetic given 2020.
coldtea 6y ago
As if that's the only thing people don't react about? Their jobs got outsourced, the police kills without penalty (especially blacks but any race will do), the lobbies run amok, their wages have been stagnant since the late 70s, their employers get increasingly more power over them, health, housing, and college have skyrocketed in costs, ... ... given all the above, which range from quality of life to life and death matters, and which not much protest has been done, surveillance is close to the bottom of the priority list...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- boogies 6y ago
  > not much protest has been done > surveillance is close to the bottom of the priority list... These are directly related. Surveillance causes chilling effects.
  - phkahler 6y ago
    Sure, but so does apathy. Another approach would be to encourage apathy by legalizing pot. Oh...
    - rightbyte 6y ago
      That one has always felt suspicious to me too ...
    - rebelos 6y ago
      Astute observation. The people are essentially being pacified with an ensemble of token gesture legislative palliatives and morale-sapping sedatives.
- core-questions 6y ago
  People react, but their reaction is channeled into a false dichotomy. What the elites learned from 1984 etc. is that you do need to provide an enemy for the people, but the people are not united; so you need to provide two enemies, each of which is a champion of one side and a foe for the other, and then let the spectre of this false choice become the defining characteristic of people's identity. Witness it in the people who hate Trump or Clinton or Biden or anyone else that is put forward: you can divide an entire country on it right down the middle, and meanwhile their policies in reality (not policy positions! implementations!) are basically indistinguishable. The same thing would happen regardless of who is elected, for the most part, because the election is a show, a pressure release valve to make people think they've done something. Even now we have people who think that electing Biden will help solve the problems you've pointed out. People ostensibly on the Left are mad about four years of rhetoric that has been riling them up, and have pulled the lever for "change" to resolve this. And yes, you will _hear_ less about blacks being shot by police for four years - that's part of the strategy, which the media cooperates / coordinates with. The actual number of incidents may not change... Instead, it will be time for news stories and events which angry up the Right for a few years, again forcing them to direct their resources and energy at fighting some spectre that won't change anything instead of directing their efforts inward to truly root out corruption and decay. There is no protest. Protests are just the establishment throwing a different sort of parade, celebrating their power by demonstrating what they can allow to happen without facing any consequences themselves. Go ahead, yell in the street, burn down a city - nothing changes because nobody is listening and your actions ultimately only hurt people lower down the chain. Surveillance did not stop the summer of Antifa and BLM rioting. It will not stop a summer of redneck riots if that's in the cards either. Surveillance probably does stop people who actually stand some chance of causing real change; but if that is a functional, working thing, you won't hear a word about it.
feralimal 6y ago
In conspiracy culture, this is called predictive programming. We are shown the ideas in films etc, so then when it appears in reality, we don't react in shock and reject it. Rather we shrug and are resigned to its appearance in reality. This also correlates to the idea of boiling frogs. Apparently, if you turn up the heat slowly the frog will stay in the warm water and be boiled, as opposed to jumping out, which is what happens if you place the frog directly into warm water.
- mrec 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog#Experiments_and_analysis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog#Experiments_and_a... Overall, results seem inconclusive. I don't see that Hutchinson's result (frog becomes increasingly active as water is heated by 1°C per minute) contradicts Heinzmann's (no movement as water is heated by 0.2°C per minute). Goltz's finding that "a frog that has had its brain removed will remain in slowly heated water" seems... unsurprising.
  - feralimal 6y ago
    I did say 'apparently'. :) Good research though!
  - ornornor 6y ago
    There is a joke in the same vein where scientists try and train fleas to learn and obey commands to jump. They find that the hardest fleas to teach how to jump on command are those with all legs removed: they’re the most stubborn and refuse to jump when asked 100% of the time.
- throwaway1723 6y ago
  By the time everyone can tell conspiracy theories from conspiracy practices it's already too late. It's all based on three words: 'already', 'will', and 'we'. 'We are already being tracked by our smartphones - So we will be wearing implanted radio chips soon". Reject 'we' by not using one and you're not being 'aready' tracked, and hence 'will' not accept whatever coming after this. But it requires some bravery, which is known to be eradicated in people these days.
throwaway1723 6y ago
https://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html https://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html
crististm 6y ago
I remember a naval officer survivor of a rocket or torpedo hit (post WWII) describing what he was going through at those moments. He basically was tracking the thing with his eyes as it approached, practically mesmerized, not incapable of moving but locked in awe of that unstoppable thing approaching, knowing fully well that he should take cover immediately but practically doing nothing. I think we're doing the same, in a sense asking privately "bring it on; let's see what this would do... to _them_ " as if we're watching a tornado from the safety of the TV not caring of the results; and like that navy officer not able to defend the ship, locked in awe (or ignorance?) of our own peril.

Nasrudith 6y ago

It isn't a prophecy it is reading in what you want to see from it. Snow Crash was over the top camp when it was first written.

coldtea 6y ago
Well, I haven't read Snow Crash, but this excerpt is neither "over the top" nor camp, and appears quite prophetic given 2020.
- freeone3000 6y ago
  The main character of Snow Crash is named Hiro Protagonist. The above is meant to be absurdity, like the full body scanner in Airplane 2.
  - GekkePrutser 6y ago
    You mean like the ones we have now?
    - freeone3000 6y ago
      It was an absurdity at the time.
      - rriepe 6y ago
        Well, I haven't seen Airplane!, but this example is neither "over the top" nor camp, and appears quite prophetic given 2020.

coldtea 6y ago

As if that's the only thing people don't react about? Their jobs got outsourced, the police kills without penalty (especially blacks but any race will do), the lobbies run amok, their wages have been stagnant since the late 70s, their employers get increasingly more power over them, health, housing, and college have skyrocketed in costs, ... ... given all the above, which range from quality of life to life and death matters, and which not much protest has been done, surveillance is close to the bottom of the priority list...

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
boogies 6y ago
> not much protest has been done > surveillance is close to the bottom of the priority list... These are directly related. Surveillance causes chilling effects.
- phkahler 6y ago
  Sure, but so does apathy. Another approach would be to encourage apathy by legalizing pot. Oh...
  - rightbyte 6y ago
    That one has always felt suspicious to me too ...
  - rebelos 6y ago
    Astute observation. The people are essentially being pacified with an ensemble of token gesture legislative palliatives and morale-sapping sedatives.
core-questions 6y ago
People react, but their reaction is channeled into a false dichotomy. What the elites learned from 1984 etc. is that you do need to provide an enemy for the people, but the people are not united; so you need to provide two enemies, each of which is a champion of one side and a foe for the other, and then let the spectre of this false choice become the defining characteristic of people's identity. Witness it in the people who hate Trump or Clinton or Biden or anyone else that is put forward: you can divide an entire country on it right down the middle, and meanwhile their policies in reality (not policy positions! implementations!) are basically indistinguishable. The same thing would happen regardless of who is elected, for the most part, because the election is a show, a pressure release valve to make people think they've done something. Even now we have people who think that electing Biden will help solve the problems you've pointed out. People ostensibly on the Left are mad about four years of rhetoric that has been riling them up, and have pulled the lever for "change" to resolve this. And yes, you will _hear_ less about blacks being shot by police for four years - that's part of the strategy, which the media cooperates / coordinates with. The actual number of incidents may not change... Instead, it will be time for news stories and events which angry up the Right for a few years, again forcing them to direct their resources and energy at fighting some spectre that won't change anything instead of directing their efforts inward to truly root out corruption and decay. There is no protest. Protests are just the establishment throwing a different sort of parade, celebrating their power by demonstrating what they can allow to happen without facing any consequences themselves. Go ahead, yell in the street, burn down a city - nothing changes because nobody is listening and your actions ultimately only hurt people lower down the chain. Surveillance did not stop the summer of Antifa and BLM rioting. It will not stop a summer of redneck riots if that's in the cards either. Surveillance probably does stop people who actually stand some chance of causing real change; but if that is a functional, working thing, you won't hear a word about it.

feralimal 6y ago

In conspiracy culture, this is called predictive programming. We are shown the ideas in films etc, so then when it appears in reality, we don't react in shock and reject it. Rather we shrug and are resigned to its appearance in reality. This also correlates to the idea of boiling frogs. Apparently, if you turn up the heat slowly the frog will stay in the warm water and be boiled, as opposed to jumping out, which is what happens if you place the frog directly into warm water.

mrec 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog#Experiments_and_analysis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog#Experiments_and_a... Overall, results seem inconclusive. I don't see that Hutchinson's result (frog becomes increasingly active as water is heated by 1°C per minute) contradicts Heinzmann's (no movement as water is heated by 0.2°C per minute). Goltz's finding that "a frog that has had its brain removed will remain in slowly heated water" seems... unsurprising.
- feralimal 6y ago
  I did say 'apparently'. :) Good research though!
- ornornor 6y ago
  There is a joke in the same vein where scientists try and train fleas to learn and obey commands to jump. They find that the hardest fleas to teach how to jump on command are those with all legs removed: they’re the most stubborn and refuse to jump when asked 100% of the time.
throwaway1723 6y ago
By the time everyone can tell conspiracy theories from conspiracy practices it's already too late. It's all based on three words: 'already', 'will', and 'we'. 'We are already being tracked by our smartphones - So we will be wearing implanted radio chips soon". Reject 'we' by not using one and you're not being 'aready' tracked, and hence 'will' not accept whatever coming after this. But it requires some bravery, which is known to be eradicated in people these days.

throwaway1723 6y ago

https://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html https://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html

crististm 6y ago

I remember a naval officer survivor of a rocket or torpedo hit (post WWII) describing what he was going through at those moments. He basically was tracking the thing with his eyes as it approached, practically mesmerized, not incapable of moving but locked in awe of that unstoppable thing approaching, knowing fully well that he should take cover immediately but practically doing nothing. I think we're doing the same, in a sense asking privately "bring it on; let's see what this would do... to _them_ " as if we're watching a tornado from the safety of the TV not caring of the results; and like that navy officer not able to defend the ship, locked in awe (or ignorance?) of our own peril.