4 ms·

So the GDP goes up, but do the people inhabiting the country live better lives?

by SerLava 6y ago

Shared404 6y ago
A case study in picking good metrics.
- taliesinb 6y ago
  Maybe we need to think about whether modern capitalist economies are higher-order lifeforms that have produced many systems, including systems of economic rationalization and "consent manufacture", that directly optimize their... ecomass. It's no longer really about class and the means of production -- we're seeing how an organism that is larger than us has learned how to reprogram us to better serve its need. The paper clip optimizer is already here, folks!
  - Nasrudith 6y ago
    Was that a GP3 output as an experiment? Because that is literally a bunch of nonsensically mashing ecology, economics, and anti-capitalism memes mashed together. Seriously before flagging me or downvoting try to paraphrase that paragraph as anything coherent.
    - Shared404 6y ago
      Wow. That was ridiculously rude. >Maybe we need to think about whether modern capitalist economies are higher-order lifeforms that have produced many systems, including systems of economic rationalization and "consent manufacture", that directly optimize their... ecomass. Economies behave like organisms working to increase their "ecomass", or in this case, GDP > It's no longer really about class and the means of production -- we're seeing how an organism that is larger than us has learned how to reprogram us to better serve its need. We are acting like microorganisms inside of the organism that is the economy. > The paper clip optimizer is already here, folks! Reference to the traditional story about an AI optimizing paperclip production over everything else, including human life. EDIT: For the record, I both downvoted and flagged. It was not that hard of a paragraph to parse, and you attacked it in a rude manner, and made unfounded accusations.
  - chungus_khan 6y ago
    Even then, it still is about capital, it's just that the power and interests of capital work inside this organism the same way individual cells further their own life in a multicellular organism. The whole coheres as a result of a confluence of interests and interactions, most of which are so minuscule they have no substantial individual impact on the whole and merely serve as reinforcement of the general pattern, growth. Some cells are more powerful than others, nerve cells have some ability to direct the organism as a group, as do billionaires in this economic organism, but in both cases are bound by the system and ultimately have the same interests as the organism itself. The important note here is that these sub-units of the organism are not people in general. They are capital and its controllers. It is their individual interests which trend towards their own growth that result in the organism itself seeking growth as a whole.
Nasrudith 6y ago
Reduce your personal GDP while working the same hours, same life arrangement - does your life get better?

So the GDP goes up, but do the people inhabiting the country live better lives?

Shared404 6y ago

A case study in picking good metrics.

taliesinb 6y ago
Maybe we need to think about whether modern capitalist economies are higher-order lifeforms that have produced many systems, including systems of economic rationalization and "consent manufacture", that directly optimize their... ecomass. It's no longer really about class and the means of production -- we're seeing how an organism that is larger than us has learned how to reprogram us to better serve its need. The paper clip optimizer is already here, folks!
- Nasrudith 6y ago
  Was that a GP3 output as an experiment? Because that is literally a bunch of nonsensically mashing ecology, economics, and anti-capitalism memes mashed together. Seriously before flagging me or downvoting try to paraphrase that paragraph as anything coherent.
  - Shared404 6y ago
    Wow. That was ridiculously rude. >Maybe we need to think about whether modern capitalist economies are higher-order lifeforms that have produced many systems, including systems of economic rationalization and "consent manufacture", that directly optimize their... ecomass. Economies behave like organisms working to increase their "ecomass", or in this case, GDP > It's no longer really about class and the means of production -- we're seeing how an organism that is larger than us has learned how to reprogram us to better serve its need. We are acting like microorganisms inside of the organism that is the economy. > The paper clip optimizer is already here, folks! Reference to the traditional story about an AI optimizing paperclip production over everything else, including human life. EDIT: For the record, I both downvoted and flagged. It was not that hard of a paragraph to parse, and you attacked it in a rude manner, and made unfounded accusations.
- chungus_khan 6y ago
  Even then, it still is about capital, it's just that the power and interests of capital work inside this organism the same way individual cells further their own life in a multicellular organism. The whole coheres as a result of a confluence of interests and interactions, most of which are so minuscule they have no substantial individual impact on the whole and merely serve as reinforcement of the general pattern, growth. Some cells are more powerful than others, nerve cells have some ability to direct the organism as a group, as do billionaires in this economic organism, but in both cases are bound by the system and ultimately have the same interests as the organism itself. The important note here is that these sub-units of the organism are not people in general. They are capital and its controllers. It is their individual interests which trend towards their own growth that result in the organism itself seeking growth as a whole.

Nasrudith 6y ago

Reduce your personal GDP while working the same hours, same life arrangement - does your life get better?