6 ms·

> hitting the Page Down button at reasonably regular intervals, occasionally paging back up to pretend to reread some earlier section How long does simple key

> hitting the Page Down button at reasonably regular intervals, occasionally paging back up to pretend to reread some earlier section How long does simple key logging last before they add eye tracking?

EvanAnderson 6y ago
Seems very feasible: https://webgazer.cs.brown.edu/ https://webgazer.cs.brown.edu/
boogies 6y ago
…or Apple Watch-like pulse tracking, etc., and then who knows if/when Neuralink becomes practically, widely deployable and useful. I think we’re just a bit beyond the technical capabilities of the Thought Police right now in terms of sensing — their telescreens could hear breathing in quiet rooms, but on the other hand Orwell didn’t seem to foresee people buying their own pocketable ones with GPS & cell triangulation, etc. (they didn’t necessarily know everyone’s exact location all the time) — but perhaps we’re quickly surpassing their analytics abilities (particularly bandwidth — finite human staff are less of a bottleneck) with AI.
na85 6y ago
Not long. Software as an industry feels particularly devoid of ethics these days. If Bloggins doesn't build this for his employer the guy in the next co-working space will.
- pjlegato 6y ago
  There is no coherent "software industry" as a unitary entity with shared norms and standards. There never was. Since all you really need to get started is a laptop, there are rather millions of more or less atomized software shops and developers attached to other industries, other streams of revenue and capital, other entirely disconnected cultures and social norms.
drdaeman 6y ago
If this happens, two^W three can play this game. If this ever becomes a thing, I'm definitely going to open a business, selling 3D printed heads with animated eyes. Elevator pitch for VCs would be about machine learning - neural networks generating consumer head nodding behaviors that match the read phrases, as well as rising simulated body temperature in righteous awe or anger upon "reading" certain pieces of spam. And how all that behavioral data is somehow valuable (lol).
- EvanAnderson 6y ago
  You'll need that fake head to be vascularized too. Photoplethysmography is a thing. >smile<
  - danudey 6y ago
    Okay so now I'm just meant to hire someone who looks like me to read my e-mails for me? Definitely going to have to try to expense that.
    - TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
      You can outsource it. Better yet, set up a startup to offshore it. Or - ding ding! - AI it, providing Virtual Work as a Service. You can have virtual cubicles full of imaginary AI-generated people automating bureaucratic busywork being generated by AI management algorithms. Maybe I should write a novel about this. (Or am I too late?)
- MaxBarraclough 6y ago
  > selling 3D printed heads with animated eyes I figure it's an arms race that will play out in the software space. More generally, it's deep-fakes vs deep-fake-detectors.
n0nc3 6y ago
Given that its already deployed in academic contexts, I suspect that the more invasive employers are already using it. Finance, defense, etc.
- koonsolo 6y ago
  That would be illegal in EU
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - temp667 6y ago
    Are you sure. The EU mandates much MORE monitoring in most cases. Self driving cars may need to have camera's on occupants to monitor them during driving etc. A lot of the safety stuff in EU is MUCH more nanny state and CCTV is much more widespread it seems. Also very power data collection and centralized databases about everyone in the EU (ie, I don't think "states" or localities issue local ID's).
    - Teknoman117 6y ago
      I think the point was that while the various governments in the EU deploy surveillance systems en masse, private companies can not.
    - koonsolo 6y ago
      Spying on employees is very restricted. Anything that would even come close to it would be strongly rejected by the unions.
    - TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
      "May" And no - CCTV is not widespread at all. There's far more CCTV in the UK than there is in the EU where I live now. States do indeed issue local IDs. There is no common EU ID card and no common EU passport. There isn't even a common immigration database for Schengen - although that's planned for 2023. (It was supposed to be 2022, but it's been delayed by a year.)
user5994461 6y ago
Eye tracking is already live in production. Had the joy to see some contractors at work. The webcam is recording 24/7 to ensure their face is in front of the screen. If the employee looks away for a second, the screen flashes something about no user being present. If somebody else shows up in the field of view, for example me walking by, the screen flashes something about an unauthorized user. The session is locked out after a few notifications.
- GekkePrutser 6y ago
  Wow I would hate to work there. Unless this is some kind of top-secret government consultancy thing that is totally unappropriate.
  - user5994461 6y ago
    The work involves reading and reviewing some documents. Some confidential documents but nothing fancy. It's minimum wage, hourly contracting with no benefits.
    - zentiggr 6y ago
      So in other words, easily swapped out for something far more humane. Sounds like the best path.
- toyg 6y ago
  Please tell us where this is happening, so that we can avoid ever working there. Pretty sure this would be illegal in most European countries.
  - user5994461 6y ago
    The software is made by a US software company. You have to onboard user accounts to them, install the authentication software on a laptop, and it will open a remote desktop to an AWS workspace. The session is constantly tracking the user's face and gets terminated if they look away for a minute. Contractors are disconnected regularly because their face stopped being recognized, or they can't login in the first place after 5 tries. Recall one contractor that contacted support because they couldn't login, support told him that their face was too dark.

EvanAnderson 6y ago

Seems very feasible: https://webgazer.cs.brown.edu/ https://webgazer.cs.brown.edu/

boogies 6y ago

…or Apple Watch-like pulse tracking, etc., and then who knows if/when Neuralink becomes practically, widely deployable and useful. I think we’re just a bit beyond the technical capabilities of the Thought Police right now in terms of sensing — their telescreens could hear breathing in quiet rooms, but on the other hand Orwell didn’t seem to foresee people buying their own pocketable ones with GPS & cell triangulation, etc. (they didn’t necessarily know everyone’s exact location all the time) — but perhaps we’re quickly surpassing their analytics abilities (particularly bandwidth — finite human staff are less of a bottleneck) with AI.

na85 6y ago

Not long. Software as an industry feels particularly devoid of ethics these days. If Bloggins doesn't build this for his employer the guy in the next co-working space will.

pjlegato 6y ago
There is no coherent "software industry" as a unitary entity with shared norms and standards. There never was. Since all you really need to get started is a laptop, there are rather millions of more or less atomized software shops and developers attached to other industries, other streams of revenue and capital, other entirely disconnected cultures and social norms.

drdaeman 6y ago

If this happens, two^W three can play this game. If this ever becomes a thing, I'm definitely going to open a business, selling 3D printed heads with animated eyes. Elevator pitch for VCs would be about machine learning - neural networks generating consumer head nodding behaviors that match the read phrases, as well as rising simulated body temperature in righteous awe or anger upon "reading" certain pieces of spam. And how all that behavioral data is somehow valuable (lol).

EvanAnderson 6y ago
You'll need that fake head to be vascularized too. Photoplethysmography is a thing. >smile<
- danudey 6y ago
  Okay so now I'm just meant to hire someone who looks like me to read my e-mails for me? Definitely going to have to try to expense that.
  - TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
    You can outsource it. Better yet, set up a startup to offshore it. Or - ding ding! - AI it, providing Virtual Work as a Service. You can have virtual cubicles full of imaginary AI-generated people automating bureaucratic busywork being generated by AI management algorithms. Maybe I should write a novel about this. (Or am I too late?)
MaxBarraclough 6y ago
> selling 3D printed heads with animated eyes I figure it's an arms race that will play out in the software space. More generally, it's deep-fakes vs deep-fake-detectors.

n0nc3 6y ago

Given that its already deployed in academic contexts, I suspect that the more invasive employers are already using it. Finance, defense, etc.

koonsolo 6y ago
That would be illegal in EU
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- temp667 6y ago
  Are you sure. The EU mandates much MORE monitoring in most cases. Self driving cars may need to have camera's on occupants to monitor them during driving etc. A lot of the safety stuff in EU is MUCH more nanny state and CCTV is much more widespread it seems. Also very power data collection and centralized databases about everyone in the EU (ie, I don't think "states" or localities issue local ID's).
  - Teknoman117 6y ago
    I think the point was that while the various governments in the EU deploy surveillance systems en masse, private companies can not.
  - koonsolo 6y ago
    Spying on employees is very restricted. Anything that would even come close to it would be strongly rejected by the unions.
  - TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
    "May" And no - CCTV is not widespread at all. There's far more CCTV in the UK than there is in the EU where I live now. States do indeed issue local IDs. There is no common EU ID card and no common EU passport. There isn't even a common immigration database for Schengen - although that's planned for 2023. (It was supposed to be 2022, but it's been delayed by a year.)

user5994461 6y ago

Eye tracking is already live in production. Had the joy to see some contractors at work. The webcam is recording 24/7 to ensure their face is in front of the screen. If the employee looks away for a second, the screen flashes something about no user being present. If somebody else shows up in the field of view, for example me walking by, the screen flashes something about an unauthorized user. The session is locked out after a few notifications.

GekkePrutser 6y ago
Wow I would hate to work there. Unless this is some kind of top-secret government consultancy thing that is totally unappropriate.
- user5994461 6y ago
  The work involves reading and reviewing some documents. Some confidential documents but nothing fancy. It's minimum wage, hourly contracting with no benefits.
  - zentiggr 6y ago
    So in other words, easily swapped out for something far more humane. Sounds like the best path.
toyg 6y ago
Please tell us where this is happening, so that we can avoid ever working there. Pretty sure this would be illegal in most European countries.
- user5994461 6y ago
  The software is made by a US software company. You have to onboard user accounts to them, install the authentication software on a laptop, and it will open a remote desktop to an AWS workspace. The session is constantly tracking the user's face and gets terminated if they look away for a minute. Contractors are disconnected regularly because their face stopped being recognized, or they can't login in the first place after 5 tries. Recall one contractor that contacted support because they couldn't login, support told him that their face was too dark.