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Even without physical interaction, you can do a whole lot with just an internet connection. A superintelligence could identify 0-day exploits and quickly spread

Even without physical interaction, you can do a whole lot with just an internet connection. A superintelligence could identify 0-day exploits and quickly spread across thousands of computers and thus render itself immune to your idea of just switching it off. What do we do then? Sure, we can shut down the internet, but where is that going to leave us and how much damage has been done before that happens?

qayxc 6y ago
> A superintelligence could identify 0-day exploits and quickly spread across thousands of computers and thus render itself immune to your idea of just switching it off. What do we do then? How about simply pulling the plug of the computer or even just the network cable? More to the point, how would an AI even learn about such mysterious exploit if it doesn't have access to an external network in the first place? Even run-of-the-mill supercomputer centres aren't directly connected to the internet for security reasons, so why change that with a potentially dangerous computer program?
- vntok 6y ago
  How exactly do you intend to prove that an AI does not have access to an external network?
  - qayxc 6y ago
    Network connectivity isn't magic: no physical connection, no network. Simple as that. Hard to imagine in this "always connected" world, but WAN is completely optional.
    - vntok 6y ago
      Did you know it is perfectly possible for a computer to exfiltrate data without physical connections and without even having a networking card? A few examples: Using speakers or microphones to transmit arbitrary data via ultrasounds. Making the CPU/GPU fans vibrate in a way that sends encoded bits. Blinking the screen to emit electromagnetic waves. Transfering certain data patterns between RAM and CPU so fast that they produce oscillations, effectively converting the BUS into a GSM antenna that can emit arbitrary data over a regular cellular network. Turning the fans off to change the heat signature in a way that transmits information.... Or even simply bliking a light to send data through regular lightwaves? Scientists discover new ways to exfiltrate data basically every other year, how can you be so certain you've thought of every possible way?
      - qayxc 6y ago
        > Did you know it is perfectly possible for a computer to exfiltrate data without physical connections and without even having a networking card? Yes. > A few examples: ... All these examples require active physical interaction of the machine with the world, which simply isn't possible for a server to do. This is the environment an AGI will likely "live" in: https://bit.ly/33w7ySX https://bit.ly/33w7ySX There's no speakers, no bus oscillations to pick up (from where? by what?) and you might notice that these ominous boxes don't have anything that can pick up signals (optical, vibrations, or otherwise). Exfiltrating data from machines without touching them is completely unrelated to the capabilities of a program running in a box like this https://bit.ly/3l2hPfw https://bit.ly/3l2hPfw There are no sensors that can measure the outside and the floors these boxes are located at are heavily shielded and isolated from the outside anyway for various reasons (EM protection, physical security, etc.) so no potential target PC in sight.
        vntok 6y ago
        The datasheet of the A100 lists "remote intervention from an engineer's home or workstation" as a core feature of that box, using one of the dozens of hyperoptimized networking components, so... not sure what argument you are going for there. These hyperconnected boxes are definitely (hopefully?) not where an AGI will be built.
        qayxc 6y ago
        You are aware of what a symbol picture is? Also, yes, every server and super computer has network components, that still doesn't mean that the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory's Sierra and its 4 GPUs per node are accessible from the internet, so your remark is kind of meaningless.
        vntok 6y ago
        Incorrect. Out of the three Sierra hosted at LLNL that have the "4 GPUs per node" you're talking about, two of them are in fact accessible from the public Internet. One is in Collaboration Zone CZ (Sierra/lassen), another is in Restricted Zone RZ (Sierra/rzansel). Only one of the three is classified (Sierra/shark), and even then it's still sshable when one's logged into SecureNet.

qayxc 6y ago

> A superintelligence could identify 0-day exploits and quickly spread across thousands of computers and thus render itself immune to your idea of just switching it off. What do we do then? How about simply pulling the plug of the computer or even just the network cable? More to the point, how would an AI even learn about such mysterious exploit if it doesn't have access to an external network in the first place? Even run-of-the-mill supercomputer centres aren't directly connected to the internet for security reasons, so why change that with a potentially dangerous computer program?

vntok 6y ago
How exactly do you intend to prove that an AI does not have access to an external network?
- qayxc 6y ago
  Network connectivity isn't magic: no physical connection, no network. Simple as that. Hard to imagine in this "always connected" world, but WAN is completely optional.
  - vntok 6y ago
    Did you know it is perfectly possible for a computer to exfiltrate data without physical connections and without even having a networking card? A few examples: Using speakers or microphones to transmit arbitrary data via ultrasounds. Making the CPU/GPU fans vibrate in a way that sends encoded bits. Blinking the screen to emit electromagnetic waves. Transfering certain data patterns between RAM and CPU so fast that they produce oscillations, effectively converting the BUS into a GSM antenna that can emit arbitrary data over a regular cellular network. Turning the fans off to change the heat signature in a way that transmits information.... Or even simply bliking a light to send data through regular lightwaves? Scientists discover new ways to exfiltrate data basically every other year, how can you be so certain you've thought of every possible way?
    - qayxc 6y ago
      > Did you know it is perfectly possible for a computer to exfiltrate data without physical connections and without even having a networking card? Yes. > A few examples: ... All these examples require active physical interaction of the machine with the world, which simply isn't possible for a server to do. This is the environment an AGI will likely "live" in: https://bit.ly/33w7ySX https://bit.ly/33w7ySX There's no speakers, no bus oscillations to pick up (from where? by what?) and you might notice that these ominous boxes don't have anything that can pick up signals (optical, vibrations, or otherwise). Exfiltrating data from machines without touching them is completely unrelated to the capabilities of a program running in a box like this https://bit.ly/3l2hPfw https://bit.ly/3l2hPfw There are no sensors that can measure the outside and the floors these boxes are located at are heavily shielded and isolated from the outside anyway for various reasons (EM protection, physical security, etc.) so no potential target PC in sight.
      - vntok 6y ago
        The datasheet of the A100 lists "remote intervention from an engineer's home or workstation" as a core feature of that box, using one of the dozens of hyperoptimized networking components, so... not sure what argument you are going for there. These hyperconnected boxes are definitely (hopefully?) not where an AGI will be built.
        qayxc 6y ago
        You are aware of what a symbol picture is? Also, yes, every server and super computer has network components, that still doesn't mean that the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory's Sierra and its 4 GPUs per node are accessible from the internet, so your remark is kind of meaningless.
        vntok 6y ago
        Incorrect. Out of the three Sierra hosted at LLNL that have the "4 GPUs per node" you're talking about, two of them are in fact accessible from the public Internet. One is in Collaboration Zone CZ (Sierra/lassen), another is in Restricted Zone RZ (Sierra/rzansel). Only one of the three is classified (Sierra/shark), and even then it's still sshable when one's logged into SecureNet.