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You missed this line: >"The BMW X5, Volvo XC60 and Mitsubishi Outlander emitted 28-89% more CO2 than advertised when tested by Emissions Analytics on a fully c

by ppf 6y ago

You missed this line: >"The BMW X5, Volvo XC60 and Mitsubishi Outlander emitted 28-89% more CO2 than advertised when tested by Emissions Analytics on a fully charged battery in optimal conditions. Hybrids are designed by manufacturers who want to pass emissions legislation, and bought by customers who just want a car (in my experience, here in the UK that means "I want an oversized car so I feel safe as I blast around small roads at excessive speed).

PietdeVries 6y ago
Can't speak for the UK, but in the Netherlands the tax deduction laws have changed (already 4 years ago) to no longer give lease-car drivers a tax advantage when driving a hybrid. Only full electric cars were eligible for a lower tax rate - the hybrids were taxed like regular ICU cars. I have personally driven a C350e - a hybrid with an amazingly short range - and I really like the concept. If you compare the fuel consumption with similar cars (same, weight, size) it is much more fuel efficient. And indeed, that greatly depends on how disciplined the driver is. I charge wherever I can, manually set the car to 'full electric' until I run out of charge and don't "blaze around small roads at excessive speed". The 1600 kg Mercedes can run a comfortable 1 liter per 30 kms and more. So sure, the fancy stories told by the salesmen, you are never going to see happen. But better fuel consumption without the charging stress (anyone seen the Tesla's waiting in line for supercharger-stations during the previous winter when we still were allowed to ski?) is easily done.
IronRanger 6y ago
And if that weight and cost budget was just used for batteries, instead of an engine and drivetrain, you'd get a much better electric vehicle.
- ppf 6y ago
  If you took the BOM cost of the ICE components in a hybrid car, and spent it on the electric drivetrain, you would end up with a very poor performing EV (at least, the range would be abysmal).
  - zaroth 6y ago
    This is less and less true every year. Similar to the x86 vs ARM performance chart, or any disruptive technology really. I think the crossover will happen in less than 10 years. After that point an ICE vehicle will be worse in every performance metric, and cost more for less.
    - WorldMaker 6y ago
      Compared to the supply chain for an EV motor, the supply chain for an ICE is incredibly complex and ripe for disruption. When that disruption occurs things are going to get real interesting, real fast. (As one indicator to watch, Bosch is a German conglomerate that alone makes a surprisingly large fraction of the ICE supply chain and key parts in almost every major ICE from at the very least US and German manufacturers. Bosch has rumored a pivot for several years now that the time for them to get out of ICE vehicle parts is coming up as all the German manufacturers plan to go EV only. If Bosch makes that pivot they would hugely disrupt ICE costs. That's just one conglomerate of a dozen or less capable of that kind of disruption right now.)

by ppf 6y ago

PietdeVries 6y ago

Can't speak for the UK, but in the Netherlands the tax deduction laws have changed (already 4 years ago) to no longer give lease-car drivers a tax advantage when driving a hybrid. Only full electric cars were eligible for a lower tax rate - the hybrids were taxed like regular ICU cars. I have personally driven a C350e - a hybrid with an amazingly short range - and I really like the concept. If you compare the fuel consumption with similar cars (same, weight, size) it is much more fuel efficient. And indeed, that greatly depends on how disciplined the driver is. I charge wherever I can, manually set the car to 'full electric' until I run out of charge and don't "blaze around small roads at excessive speed". The 1600 kg Mercedes can run a comfortable 1 liter per 30 kms and more. So sure, the fancy stories told by the salesmen, you are never going to see happen. But better fuel consumption without the charging stress (anyone seen the Tesla's waiting in line for supercharger-stations during the previous winter when we still were allowed to ski?) is easily done.

IronRanger 6y ago

And if that weight and cost budget was just used for batteries, instead of an engine and drivetrain, you'd get a much better electric vehicle.

ppf 6y ago
If you took the BOM cost of the ICE components in a hybrid car, and spent it on the electric drivetrain, you would end up with a very poor performing EV (at least, the range would be abysmal).
- zaroth 6y ago
  This is less and less true every year. Similar to the x86 vs ARM performance chart, or any disruptive technology really. I think the crossover will happen in less than 10 years. After that point an ICE vehicle will be worse in every performance metric, and cost more for less.
  - WorldMaker 6y ago
    Compared to the supply chain for an EV motor, the supply chain for an ICE is incredibly complex and ripe for disruption. When that disruption occurs things are going to get real interesting, real fast. (As one indicator to watch, Bosch is a German conglomerate that alone makes a surprisingly large fraction of the ICE supply chain and key parts in almost every major ICE from at the very least US and German manufacturers. Bosch has rumored a pivot for several years now that the time for them to get out of ICE vehicle parts is coming up as all the German manufacturers plan to go EV only. If Bosch makes that pivot they would hugely disrupt ICE costs. That's just one conglomerate of a dozen or less capable of that kind of disruption right now.)