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there already are cryptocurrencies claiming the same thing: iota, eos, tron and probably thousands more. so what's different this time? to me it seems ETH is a

there already are cryptocurrencies claiming the same thing: iota, eos, tron and probably thousands more. so what's different this time? to me it seems ETH is always overpromise, always underdeliver kind of project. they promised global scalable world computer since inception in 2015, now they say it was never possible with ETH1 and they need to hardfork to ETH2. why do you have any confidence in their statements?

mikkelam 6y ago
Is one not allowed to learn ? I'm not familiar with eth foundation's statements but they have matured a lot since 2015 and i wouldn't say they underdeliver, there are 100s of real world applications that are using eth dapps already today. I believe it's different because i understand the tech. It's feasible. Assuming PoS works, it will scale. Eth2 is also not hard fork. The old chain will be attached to the new chain
- keymone 6y ago
  PoW has nothing to do with scaling and so PoS isn't a way to address it. if you're making this claim, i would suggest to reconsider your belief that "it's different because i understand the tech". PoW and PoS are algorithms to order transactions, but how many transactions and how often to order them are just tunable parameters. the real scalability "tech" that is being sneaked in while everybody is busy talking about PoS is sharding, which essentially means abandoning the idea of serializability of the underlying database, leading to vastly more complex failure modes, reliance on very tight clock synchronization and zero real world testing of such approach. so yeah, good luck...
  - nootropicat 6y ago
    >PoW has nothing to do with scaling and so PoS isn't a way to address it. You're wrong, PoW is a poisson process which means time to generate blocks must be a very small fraction of average block time. Block times in PoS have a normal distribution with tight std, which means block generation can take even 1/3 of block time, giving some leeway for propagation.
    - ishishkin 6y ago
      Block propagation time is only a part of the problem and it doesn't make sense to consider it separately from other parameters. By the way, why do you think block times in PoS have a normal distribution?
      - nootropicat 6y ago
        Because validators target their expected time slot and multiple random factors impact latency.
        ishishkin 6y ago
        But it doesn't mean there should be a normal distribution there! Have you ever heard about log normal distribution?
        nootropicat 6y ago
        Where do you see multiplication occurring? If a node spends 1% longer on making a block than expected and propagation takes 1% longer, this results in additive delay, not multiplicative. Ie. if every single separate step takes 1% longer the total delay is 1%.
        ishishkin 6y ago
        You appeal to your intuition. However, it could be misleading. Log-normal distribution has been found in many real world processes. Could you explain where is multiplication in cases below? 1) The length of comments posted in Internet discussion forums 2) Users' dwell time on online articles 3) income of 97%–99% of the population 4) Milk production by cows 5) Amounts of rainfall 6) Size distributions of rainfall droplets 7) The size of cash payments and size of transactions in Bitcoin Many other examples could be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Log-normal_distribution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Log-normal_distribution
        6y ago

mikkelam 6y ago

Is one not allowed to learn ? I'm not familiar with eth foundation's statements but they have matured a lot since 2015 and i wouldn't say they underdeliver, there are 100s of real world applications that are using eth dapps already today. I believe it's different because i understand the tech. It's feasible. Assuming PoS works, it will scale. Eth2 is also not hard fork. The old chain will be attached to the new chain

keymone 6y ago
PoW has nothing to do with scaling and so PoS isn't a way to address it. if you're making this claim, i would suggest to reconsider your belief that "it's different because i understand the tech". PoW and PoS are algorithms to order transactions, but how many transactions and how often to order them are just tunable parameters. the real scalability "tech" that is being sneaked in while everybody is busy talking about PoS is sharding, which essentially means abandoning the idea of serializability of the underlying database, leading to vastly more complex failure modes, reliance on very tight clock synchronization and zero real world testing of such approach. so yeah, good luck...
- nootropicat 6y ago
  >PoW has nothing to do with scaling and so PoS isn't a way to address it. You're wrong, PoW is a poisson process which means time to generate blocks must be a very small fraction of average block time. Block times in PoS have a normal distribution with tight std, which means block generation can take even 1/3 of block time, giving some leeway for propagation.
  - ishishkin 6y ago
    Block propagation time is only a part of the problem and it doesn't make sense to consider it separately from other parameters. By the way, why do you think block times in PoS have a normal distribution?
    - nootropicat 6y ago
      Because validators target their expected time slot and multiple random factors impact latency.
      - ishishkin 6y ago
        But it doesn't mean there should be a normal distribution there! Have you ever heard about log normal distribution?
        nootropicat 6y ago
        Where do you see multiplication occurring? If a node spends 1% longer on making a block than expected and propagation takes 1% longer, this results in additive delay, not multiplicative. Ie. if every single separate step takes 1% longer the total delay is 1%.
        ishishkin 6y ago
        You appeal to your intuition. However, it could be misleading. Log-normal distribution has been found in many real world processes. Could you explain where is multiplication in cases below? 1) The length of comments posted in Internet discussion forums 2) Users' dwell time on online articles 3) income of 97%–99% of the population 4) Milk production by cows 5) Amounts of rainfall 6) Size distributions of rainfall droplets 7) The size of cash payments and size of transactions in Bitcoin Many other examples could be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Log-normal_distribution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Log-normal_distribution
        6y ago