7 ms·

I live in New Mexico where I could get a CCW permit essentially guaranteed if I spent $100 on a weekend course. I don't have one, because I don't really feel a

by floren 6y ago

I live in New Mexico where I could get a CCW permit essentially guaranteed if I spent $100 on a weekend course. I don't have one, because I don't really feel a need for one--but I could get one if I wanted, just like anyone else in the state. I find it abhorrent that in California, you can only get a permit if you're well-connected: see Dianne Feinstein being the only CCW-holder in San Francisco for years while simultaneously pushing for stronger gun control.

MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
Same boat here in WI. Hell I can buy a gun and walk out of the store in a half hour!
- packetlost 6y ago
  yeah, WI has some pretty insanely lax gun laws. It took me <30 min to buy my first handgun. I don't have a CCW yet, but it's $150~ and half a days worth of online courses and some paperwork. The most bizarre thing to me is that background checks aren't required for private firearm sales.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    I feel like there should be a waiting period for your first gun, to reduce the risk of someone in crisis buying one. But once you own a gun, the risk of your second gun seems negligible to me. But yeah, no background checks on private gun sales is insane. No idea why that's legal anywhere.
    - packetlost 6y ago
      IMO there should be a mandatory waiting period of 24-48 hours for any firearm, but you should be able to start the process over the phone/online etc. Alternatively, require training + passing an exam similar to getting a drivers license for owning anything except a manual long-barrel rifle or shotgun. Semi-auto firearms especially should require licensing/training IMO. Restrictions on magazine size or appearance ("assault rifle" lol) are generally dumb and fail to address real problems. I think it's reasonable to know who probably has a gun (ie. through a license program), but I'm generally against mandatory gun registration (though voluntary registration is fine).
      - ashtonkem 6y ago
        Typically speaking waiting periods are about reducing the risk of someone in a crisis purchasing a firearm and immediately using it for harm, usually either suicide or domestic violence. From a public health perspective there is very little increase in danger for someone buying a second gun, especially of the same type. All of the risk is for their first firearm. IIRC licensing programs for handguns typically have shown promising results in reducing firearm suicide in particular, but they're also unpopular for predictable political reasons. If you're pro-firearm, there is very little difference between "you have to register your gun" and "you have to register to buy a gun".
        packetlost 6y ago
        > Typically speaking waiting periods are about reducing the risk of someone in a crisis purchasing a firearm and immediately using it for harm, usually either suicide or domestic violence. From a public health perspective there is very little increase in danger for someone buying a second gun, especially of the same type. All of the risk is for their first firearm. This assumes that people don't get rid of firearms or have changes in mental health. There doesn't seem to be much of a justifiable reason to get a gun on short notice, so why not just apply it universally? > If you're pro-firearm, there is very little difference between "you have to register your gun" and "you have to register to buy a gun". I'm pro firearm. I'm also vehemently pro education. If you need a license to prove you can safely operate a motor vehicle, you should need a license to purchase a semi-automatic weapon IMO. I disagree, there is a functional difference between licensing gun owners vs registering guns. One tracks that an owner has gone through training and is authorized to purchase certain types of weapons. It doesn't concretely determine whether they own, or have ever owned a firearm, just like a driver's license does not determine that I own, or have ever owned a motor vehicle (just that I was able to borrow one for the duration of my practical exam). Further, mandatory registration of firearms would include things such as purchase date, serial number, model, location of purchase, etc., which is actually new information that could be potentially used to track and confiscate firearms under certain circumstances. I'd also like to point out that a background check gives more info about the purchase of firearms than a license would. It tells: the date of purchase, the rough type of firearm (handgun vs anything else, at least in WI), and the location of purchase.
    - MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
      While I understand what you're getting it, typically your first gun isn't when the crisis occurs. Especially here unfortunately. Plus a lot of gun culture is tied to hunting culture. I actually gave a gun to the police once cause I didn't want a rifle anymore (it was just a cheap mosin) and I could tell the cop was holding back a grin of disbelief the entire time. $5 bucks says it's in his gun locker right now at home.
baby 6y ago
I mean that's why I don't live in New Mexico
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  Reasonable people can disagree about guns and CCW, but you’re crossing the line to just insulting everyone who disagrees with you.
  - baby 6y ago
    How? I truly do not go to states where open carry is a thing, for example. Guns are a controversial topic and I'm not the only one who would rather see them banned than legally purchasable.
    - ashtonkem 6y ago
      That's a reasonable policy position to take. "You shouldn't live anywhere where you think CCW is a good idea" is not a policy position; you're just attacking someone else for either where they live or how they feel about their personal safety. Neither of those are terribly polite, and both are counterproductive towards your stated policy preferences. Nobody likes being looked down on.
      - baby 6y ago
        I disagree, by being pro-guns you make everybody's lives less safe around you IMO.
        ashtonkem 6y ago
        Please respond to what I actually said rather than making up what you thought I’d said. This conversation will go Bette that way.
    - MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
      I worked as a teller in a rural area and a dude just walked in open carrying a pistol. It was super weird but the dude had that small town naivety.
Thorrez 6y ago
> Dianne Feinstein being the only CCW-holder in San Francisco for years while simultaneously pushing for stronger gun control. Do you have a source that there were no other CCW holders in SF at that time?
- wnoise 6y ago
  It's likely an exaggeration, but if so it's not much of one, and I can't rule it out actually being true at some point. https://revealnews.org/article/want-to-carry-a-concealed-gun-live-in-sacramento-not-san-francisco/ https://revealnews.org/article/want-to-carry-a-concealed-gun... is an article saying there were 2 in SF in 2014, and that they basically never issue them. (They apparently last for two years before being renewed). It was apparently still the case in 2019, according to the hover-map on https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article232198382.html https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article232198382.html . I have been unable to find many other county-level statistics, short of making an FOIA request.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    Feinstein claims that she no longer has a CCW permit, but that she once did. So while Feinstein once probably had most or all of the CCW permits issued in SF county, that is no longer true.

by floren 6y ago

MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago

Same boat here in WI. Hell I can buy a gun and walk out of the store in a half hour!

packetlost 6y ago
yeah, WI has some pretty insanely lax gun laws. It took me <30 min to buy my first handgun. I don't have a CCW yet, but it's $150~ and half a days worth of online courses and some paperwork. The most bizarre thing to me is that background checks aren't required for private firearm sales.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  I feel like there should be a waiting period for your first gun, to reduce the risk of someone in crisis buying one. But once you own a gun, the risk of your second gun seems negligible to me. But yeah, no background checks on private gun sales is insane. No idea why that's legal anywhere.
  - packetlost 6y ago
    IMO there should be a mandatory waiting period of 24-48 hours for any firearm, but you should be able to start the process over the phone/online etc. Alternatively, require training + passing an exam similar to getting a drivers license for owning anything except a manual long-barrel rifle or shotgun. Semi-auto firearms especially should require licensing/training IMO. Restrictions on magazine size or appearance ("assault rifle" lol) are generally dumb and fail to address real problems. I think it's reasonable to know who probably has a gun (ie. through a license program), but I'm generally against mandatory gun registration (though voluntary registration is fine).
    - ashtonkem 6y ago
      Typically speaking waiting periods are about reducing the risk of someone in a crisis purchasing a firearm and immediately using it for harm, usually either suicide or domestic violence. From a public health perspective there is very little increase in danger for someone buying a second gun, especially of the same type. All of the risk is for their first firearm. IIRC licensing programs for handguns typically have shown promising results in reducing firearm suicide in particular, but they're also unpopular for predictable political reasons. If you're pro-firearm, there is very little difference between "you have to register your gun" and "you have to register to buy a gun".
      - packetlost 6y ago
        > Typically speaking waiting periods are about reducing the risk of someone in a crisis purchasing a firearm and immediately using it for harm, usually either suicide or domestic violence. From a public health perspective there is very little increase in danger for someone buying a second gun, especially of the same type. All of the risk is for their first firearm. This assumes that people don't get rid of firearms or have changes in mental health. There doesn't seem to be much of a justifiable reason to get a gun on short notice, so why not just apply it universally? > If you're pro-firearm, there is very little difference between "you have to register your gun" and "you have to register to buy a gun". I'm pro firearm. I'm also vehemently pro education. If you need a license to prove you can safely operate a motor vehicle, you should need a license to purchase a semi-automatic weapon IMO. I disagree, there is a functional difference between licensing gun owners vs registering guns. One tracks that an owner has gone through training and is authorized to purchase certain types of weapons. It doesn't concretely determine whether they own, or have ever owned a firearm, just like a driver's license does not determine that I own, or have ever owned a motor vehicle (just that I was able to borrow one for the duration of my practical exam). Further, mandatory registration of firearms would include things such as purchase date, serial number, model, location of purchase, etc., which is actually new information that could be potentially used to track and confiscate firearms under certain circumstances. I'd also like to point out that a background check gives more info about the purchase of firearms than a license would. It tells: the date of purchase, the rough type of firearm (handgun vs anything else, at least in WI), and the location of purchase.
  - MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
    While I understand what you're getting it, typically your first gun isn't when the crisis occurs. Especially here unfortunately. Plus a lot of gun culture is tied to hunting culture. I actually gave a gun to the police once cause I didn't want a rifle anymore (it was just a cheap mosin) and I could tell the cop was holding back a grin of disbelief the entire time. $5 bucks says it's in his gun locker right now at home.

baby 6y ago

I mean that's why I don't live in New Mexico

ashtonkem 6y ago
Reasonable people can disagree about guns and CCW, but you’re crossing the line to just insulting everyone who disagrees with you.
- baby 6y ago
  How? I truly do not go to states where open carry is a thing, for example. Guns are a controversial topic and I'm not the only one who would rather see them banned than legally purchasable.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    That's a reasonable policy position to take. "You shouldn't live anywhere where you think CCW is a good idea" is not a policy position; you're just attacking someone else for either where they live or how they feel about their personal safety. Neither of those are terribly polite, and both are counterproductive towards your stated policy preferences. Nobody likes being looked down on.
    - baby 6y ago
      I disagree, by being pro-guns you make everybody's lives less safe around you IMO.
      - ashtonkem 6y ago
        Please respond to what I actually said rather than making up what you thought I’d said. This conversation will go Bette that way.
  - MeinBlutIstBlau 6y ago
    I worked as a teller in a rural area and a dude just walked in open carrying a pistol. It was super weird but the dude had that small town naivety.

Thorrez 6y ago

> Dianne Feinstein being the only CCW-holder in San Francisco for years while simultaneously pushing for stronger gun control. Do you have a source that there were no other CCW holders in SF at that time?

wnoise 6y ago
It's likely an exaggeration, but if so it's not much of one, and I can't rule it out actually being true at some point. https://revealnews.org/article/want-to-carry-a-concealed-gun-live-in-sacramento-not-san-francisco/ https://revealnews.org/article/want-to-carry-a-concealed-gun... is an article saying there were 2 in SF in 2014, and that they basically never issue them. (They apparently last for two years before being renewed). It was apparently still the case in 2019, according to the hover-map on https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article232198382.html https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article232198382.html . I have been unable to find many other county-level statistics, short of making an FOIA request.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  Feinstein claims that she no longer has a CCW permit, but that she once did. So while Feinstein once probably had most or all of the CCW permits issued in SF county, that is no longer true.