5 ms·

It’s insane that shall-issue is not the defacto standard. If you meet the requirements (not a felon etc) for exercising what is unarguably a constitutional righ

by zionic 6y ago

It’s insane that shall-issue is not the defacto standard. If you meet the requirements (not a felon etc) for exercising what is unarguably a constitutional right your participation in said right should not be at the gov’s leisure.

rietta 6y ago
There is an argument to be made that licensing in general is a poll tax. There is an equal protection argument against not recognizing permits issued to out of State residents who meet the same standards except for residency. Sadly, I am not holding my breath to see either come to the test.
- tptacek 6y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZITP93pqtdQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZITP93pqtdQ
- frob 6y ago
  Can you please make the argument that licensing in general is a poll tax? This statement seems very outlandish to me and I cannot find any papers or articles to support it. The equal protection argument also seems incorrect to me. If this were the case, states would be under scrutiny for basically any discrepancy between their laws. Why should voters in Texas be required to show IDs when those in California aren't? Why should drivers in Wisconsin keep getting their license back after their 5th DUI when people in another state lose it after 2?
  - uncoder0 6y ago
    Here is a simple argument to support that stance. Under the 2nd amendment I have the constitutional right to bear arms. If I want to purchase a suppressor to limit hearing damage while firing my weapons I have to pay a $200 tax, send my fingerprints to the FBI and wait 6 months to a year and sometimes longer before I can take possession of my suppressor. There are no similar restrictions on the right to vote or speak freely. The same rules apply if I wanted to add a stock to my AR 'pistol' which currently has a pistol brace or if I wanted to add a small piece of metal to make it fully automatic.
    - frob 6y ago
      I still do not see how any of these things are a poll tax. A poll tax is something that inhibits your right to vote by charging you money. For example, requiring a government-issued ID may be construed as a poll tax. Are you arguing that regulations and taxes on guns and accessories are LIKE a poll tax because they inhibit exercising your interpretation of the 2nd amendment? If that is the case, I would argue that it is different as the 24th amendment specifically outlaws poll taxes and there is no similar law or amendment around firearm accessories.
      - uncoder0 6y ago
        Yes, I was arguing that they are like a poll tax. The 24th is a very good point. Is the right to vote even explicitly stated in the constitution? Is that why the 24th was required to prevent poll taxes?
rietta 6y ago
And if Apple Security wasn't qualified in the eyes of this Sheriff's office then what chance does a person of regular means or small business owner have!? None, nothing!
snapetom 6y ago
It is infuriating, and not at all surprising when government officials are allowed to determine what actions are permissible by what groups.
baby 6y ago
You are putting everyone else in danger when you start carrying weapons, as an ex-resident of the bay I'm really happy that the rules are against weapons in general
- Zhenya 6y ago
  How exactly? IMHO, sf would be a lot safer if the criminals would have at least the concept that someone could respond to their violence with equal violence. Today, aside from the slim chance of being caught by an unengaged police force, the cost is zero.
  - xyzzy_plugh 6y ago
    Are... you seriously suggesting that if it was easier to get guns there might be less violent crime?
    - SwimSwimHungry 6y ago
      Yes. That is what is likely being suggested. A well armed society is a polite society. But hey, if you live in an ivory tower, why let the common folk have a right to bear arms? Doesn't that sound elitist to you? A certain someone by the name of Ronald Reagan (yeah... that guy... the one worshiped by conservatives) signed the Mulford Act into law to keep Black Panthers from open carrying guns. California's history on gun control seems oddly classist and racist when you think about it.
      - Gibbon1 6y ago
        > A well armed society is a polite society. I asked my grandfather about that. He came back with a story how one time he and his dad went into town and found out that the Pharmacist shot the Postman and killed him. said there was blood in the street. That was outside of Memphis in 1910. So yeah all nice in thoery, in practice men kill each other over stupid things.
        6y ago

by zionic 6y ago

rietta 6y ago

There is an argument to be made that licensing in general is a poll tax. There is an equal protection argument against not recognizing permits issued to out of State residents who meet the same standards except for residency. Sadly, I am not holding my breath to see either come to the test.

tptacek 6y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZITP93pqtdQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZITP93pqtdQ
frob 6y ago
Can you please make the argument that licensing in general is a poll tax? This statement seems very outlandish to me and I cannot find any papers or articles to support it. The equal protection argument also seems incorrect to me. If this were the case, states would be under scrutiny for basically any discrepancy between their laws. Why should voters in Texas be required to show IDs when those in California aren't? Why should drivers in Wisconsin keep getting their license back after their 5th DUI when people in another state lose it after 2?
- uncoder0 6y ago
  Here is a simple argument to support that stance. Under the 2nd amendment I have the constitutional right to bear arms. If I want to purchase a suppressor to limit hearing damage while firing my weapons I have to pay a $200 tax, send my fingerprints to the FBI and wait 6 months to a year and sometimes longer before I can take possession of my suppressor. There are no similar restrictions on the right to vote or speak freely. The same rules apply if I wanted to add a stock to my AR 'pistol' which currently has a pistol brace or if I wanted to add a small piece of metal to make it fully automatic.
  - frob 6y ago
    I still do not see how any of these things are a poll tax. A poll tax is something that inhibits your right to vote by charging you money. For example, requiring a government-issued ID may be construed as a poll tax. Are you arguing that regulations and taxes on guns and accessories are LIKE a poll tax because they inhibit exercising your interpretation of the 2nd amendment? If that is the case, I would argue that it is different as the 24th amendment specifically outlaws poll taxes and there is no similar law or amendment around firearm accessories.
    - uncoder0 6y ago
      Yes, I was arguing that they are like a poll tax. The 24th is a very good point. Is the right to vote even explicitly stated in the constitution? Is that why the 24th was required to prevent poll taxes?

rietta 6y ago

And if Apple Security wasn't qualified in the eyes of this Sheriff's office then what chance does a person of regular means or small business owner have!? None, nothing!

snapetom 6y ago

It is infuriating, and not at all surprising when government officials are allowed to determine what actions are permissible by what groups.

baby 6y ago

You are putting everyone else in danger when you start carrying weapons, as an ex-resident of the bay I'm really happy that the rules are against weapons in general

Zhenya 6y ago
How exactly? IMHO, sf would be a lot safer if the criminals would have at least the concept that someone could respond to their violence with equal violence. Today, aside from the slim chance of being caught by an unengaged police force, the cost is zero.
- xyzzy_plugh 6y ago
  Are... you seriously suggesting that if it was easier to get guns there might be less violent crime?
  - SwimSwimHungry 6y ago
    Yes. That is what is likely being suggested. A well armed society is a polite society. But hey, if you live in an ivory tower, why let the common folk have a right to bear arms? Doesn't that sound elitist to you? A certain someone by the name of Ronald Reagan (yeah... that guy... the one worshiped by conservatives) signed the Mulford Act into law to keep Black Panthers from open carrying guns. California's history on gun control seems oddly classist and racist when you think about it.
    - Gibbon1 6y ago
      > A well armed society is a polite society. I asked my grandfather about that. He came back with a story how one time he and his dad went into town and found out that the Pharmacist shot the Postman and killed him. said there was blood in the street. That was outside of Memphis in 1910. So yeah all nice in thoery, in practice men kill each other over stupid things.
      - 6y ago