3 ms·

We don't have a free market, or we wouldn't have fire departments, police departments, schools, military, funding for crops, or any government budgets. The ide

by bargl 6y ago

We don't have a free market, or we wouldn't have fire departments, police departments, schools, military, funding for crops, or any government budgets. The idea that we are a pure free market is as absurd as saying that china is pure communism. There is no pure government out there that meets the academic definition of the market they espouse. It's just not possible, never has been, never will be (I usually don't speak in absolutes but feel pretty 99.999% comfortable with this statement). There will always be gray outside the academic setting.

mikeyouse 6y ago
It also fails at a more practical sense too - "The freedom to swing your arm stops at my face." People "choosing" to not wear a mask and to go to restaurants where the staff can't similarly "choose" to not be there is just subjecting everyone else to infection. For its other merits, libertarianism absolutely fails in a pandemic when the only possible response is collective action. Americans have such a limited definition of freedom it's almost comical.
- bargl 6y ago
  > "The freedom to swing your arm stops at my face." Err not really, if you go full swing on someone and you "intended" to stop but they block your arm and punch you in the face, arguably it's your fault. If they kill you with that punch then they would be at fault. The law around freedom is really complex. Freedom in the US isn't limited, it's complicated. When American's use the word freedom most of them are being dumb. You do have freedoms that are protected, but that doesn't mean what you think is a freedom actually is a freedom. I'm also going to pick on your example of the restaurant. The staff at a restaurant does get to choose to be there or not, that's a free economy. If the government shuts down restaurants, like they have in some states, then the staff can no longer choose to take on that risk. Everyone gets to choose, but there is also an obligation/responsibility with freedom that people in the USA don't seem to "get". You are FREE to get a gun, you are then responsible for using it wisely. Lock it up, get trained with it, be safe, and learn when to pull it out. The jerks on CNN who had the rifle and were pointing it at the crowd are a great example of irresponsibility with freedom. They should have never, EVER pointed a gun at someone who did not pose an imminent threat to their person. Back to the punching example, everyone who sees a fake punch can judge HOW fake it was. Did they stop at the nose, did they just jerk their arm, did they go Suuuppppeeerrrrr slow. Those judgements matter in court to show that the person who fought back was being reasonable. The burden of reasonable action is even higher with a knife/gun. Take free speech for example, you can actually sign away your right to free speech in a contract. There is a commedian who talks about things that are illegal to say. Free speech applies to the press, not to individuals being ass hats. Anyway, all of that is me saying, freedom in the USA is a slogan, which is dumb. Meme's do not present great arguments, but the freedoms we do have are as well defined under the law as most place. People just don't know them.

by bargl 6y ago

mikeyouse 6y ago

It also fails at a more practical sense too - "The freedom to swing your arm stops at my face." People "choosing" to not wear a mask and to go to restaurants where the staff can't similarly "choose" to not be there is just subjecting everyone else to infection. For its other merits, libertarianism absolutely fails in a pandemic when the only possible response is collective action. Americans have such a limited definition of freedom it's almost comical.

bargl 6y ago
> "The freedom to swing your arm stops at my face." Err not really, if you go full swing on someone and you "intended" to stop but they block your arm and punch you in the face, arguably it's your fault. If they kill you with that punch then they would be at fault. The law around freedom is really complex. Freedom in the US isn't limited, it's complicated. When American's use the word freedom most of them are being dumb. You do have freedoms that are protected, but that doesn't mean what you think is a freedom actually is a freedom. I'm also going to pick on your example of the restaurant. The staff at a restaurant does get to choose to be there or not, that's a free economy. If the government shuts down restaurants, like they have in some states, then the staff can no longer choose to take on that risk. Everyone gets to choose, but there is also an obligation/responsibility with freedom that people in the USA don't seem to "get". You are FREE to get a gun, you are then responsible for using it wisely. Lock it up, get trained with it, be safe, and learn when to pull it out. The jerks on CNN who had the rifle and were pointing it at the crowd are a great example of irresponsibility with freedom. They should have never, EVER pointed a gun at someone who did not pose an imminent threat to their person. Back to the punching example, everyone who sees a fake punch can judge HOW fake it was. Did they stop at the nose, did they just jerk their arm, did they go Suuuppppeeerrrrr slow. Those judgements matter in court to show that the person who fought back was being reasonable. The burden of reasonable action is even higher with a knife/gun. Take free speech for example, you can actually sign away your right to free speech in a contract. There is a commedian who talks about things that are illegal to say. Free speech applies to the press, not to individuals being ass hats. Anyway, all of that is me saying, freedom in the USA is a slogan, which is dumb. Meme's do not present great arguments, but the freedoms we do have are as well defined under the law as most place. People just don't know them.